Question for those unsatisfied with M11 but like NCAA11

[Card-me]

I personally don't think that, on the field, either game is particularly great. Football has been done much better before. However, somebody earlier mentioned that the engine fit better with the college game, and I think that that's probably true, at least for non-pro-style teams. I don't really enjoy playing as teams with pro-style offenses in NCAA because the breakdowns in the blocking, running and passing become immediately apparent, but they're not so bad in spread or other shotgun-based offenses. But in Madden, pro-style is all you've got, and the EA engine just sucks there; the running animations are messed up, the line interactions are terrible, the passing physics are only decent (though much better than previous years), and there never seems to be a good balance in the passing game between the receivers and secondary. The limited number of receivers means that either the DBs are locked onto receivers or they're completely lost.

All I run with in NCAA is the spread, and it's specifically designed in real life to combat these issues with players of generally lower talent or ability. The speed of the game and the use of options, sweeps, and pitches help to hide the issues with the line interactions, and the constant use of 3, 4, and 5 WRs make lapses in the secondary AI more believable. Plus, the general lack of intelligence in the AI is more understandable in the college game, where, again, the talent level is lower than the NFL.

But all these issues become inexcusable in an NFL game, especially when there are very few spread-style offenses and the talent level should be higher. I can understand Kase Keenum missing some wide open passes or Arkansas' DBs completely dropping their assignments (or blatant INTs) from time to time; but that doesn't work when it's Peyton Manning and Derrelle Revis and it still happens 5 times per game. This is like saying that if you like a Camry, you shouldn't have an issue with the Lexus ES. But people often do. It's because in its class, the Camry makes sense; it's economical, roomy, reliable, and overall decent (if not great, and plenty of people don't like it, myself included). But you can't slap on some leather upholstery, alloy wheels, a standard Nav unit and a Lexus badge and suddenly expect me to look at it like a true luxury car, even if it is "entry-level luxury." Under the hood, it's still a Camry, and nothing you say is going to make me look at it any other way.

And that's just from a gameplay perspective, which is about as close as the games are going to get. In my opinion, the Dynasty mode of NCAA completely blows Madden's Franchise mode away, and it's not even as good as it should be. But the ability to be hired/fired, build programs to perennial powerhouses, and battle for stud recruits week in and week out is something that I find purely addicting. Things like recruiting and signing free agents in Madden becomes more of a chore because they're just menu selections. NCAA's recruiting is the absolute seller for me, because I feel like I'm actually fighting every week for these guys, which then means once they get to my school, I want them to be as good as possible, so I have a connection to them. I'll never have that with a player in Madden.

But that's what makes the NCAA package, as a whole, leagues better than Madden in my opinion. The gameplay is quite similar (though, as I said, makes a little more sense in NCAA), but the rest of the package is what keeps me coming back to NCAA year after year. Madden, more or less, has to stand on its gameplay merits, which are severely lacking unfortunately. If I'm going to play a football game based purely on gameplay, it's going to be one of the 2k offerings or even the last gen Madden/NCAAs (where things like weight, momentum, and passing arcs actually existed). For a full dynasty/franchise experience, though, NCAA11 is one of the best ever, and that's largely what makes the game so good. I would much prefer it to have a completely new gameplay engine itself, but I'll put up with the one it's got for now.

[JMBOO]

Honestly, on All-Madden, your blockers do not block, whereas on Heisman, they do. So, already, your argument is severly flawed.

If Madden was anything close to NCAA, people would be very happy. As it is not, people are not happy, for, they see Madden for what it is.

A shame, really, since, both games share the same tech. How can this be is my question.

[permanent1]

My opinion on this matter is people love NCAA because it went from average to really good in one year,madden was already at good last year and barely got better this year when you have such a big leap in quality like NCAA has had people tend to really be happy but of course we all have our opinions.

Some people try to present their opinions as if it were a fact on here,we all know what they say about opinions.

[rudyjuly2]

Lots of great points in here. PGaither makes some great points and Adembroski does as well. Plus the one poster that states NCAA is getting more praise because of a bigger leap is probably true, even if the two games aren't that different.

Interesting reading guys. I don't follow Madden nearly as closely as NCAA and I won't be getting Madden namely because I typically just play one football game and prefer college football (just putting my intentions out there). But it seems to me that all of the criticism over Madden this year has been about non gameplay stuff. The lack of franchise improvements. Strategy Pad. Gameflow/gameplan (I found this annoying along with the co-ordinator audio and text). The lack of a really innovative improvement that hasn't already been seen in NCAA 11. I think the criticism is fair for a lot of this but that doesn't mean the gameplay in Madden 11 will be bad.

I just tried the M11 demo for 1/2 game yesterday before dinner and the gameplay seemed fine. In no way can I judge a game on that short a time with it but I did find it odd that I'm judging and criticizing everything else in the game (audio, presentation, gameflow, strategy pad, etc) and not even paying attention to the gameplay much. Somehow the focus and direction of M11 got sidetracked with all this other stuff.

Lastly, the NCAA team has been criticized heavily in the past for not adding a lot of the stuff the Madden team has put in. But the Madden team should be taken to task for not adding some of the things NCAA has like the player lock camera which many people like. I don't like the Madden 11 camera at all compared to NCAA 11. I wish both games had tons of camera options and in game saves. That's why I do get annoyed when new features get added that I don't care about (like Season Showdown last year for NCAA 10). Why not add the hot topic features that people want first before putting in this other stuff?

[Jukeman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Card-me

I personally don't think that, on the field, either game is particularly great. Football has been done much better before. However, somebody earlier mentioned that the engine fit better with the college game, and I think that that's probably true, at least for non-pro-style teams. I don't really enjoy playing as teams with pro-style offenses in NCAA because the breakdowns in the blocking, running and passing become immediately apparent, but they're not so bad in spread or other shotgun-based offenses. But in Madden, pro-style is all you've got, and the EA engine just sucks there; the running animations are messed up, the line interactions are terrible, the passing physics are only decent (though much better than previous years), and there never seems to be a good balance in the passing game between the receivers and secondary. The limited number of receivers means that either the DBs are locked onto receivers or they're completely lost. All I run with in NCAA is the spread, and it's specifically designed in real life to combat these issues with players of generally lower talent or ability. The speed of the game and the use of options, sweeps, and pitches help to hide the issues with the line interactions, and the constant use of 3, 4, and 5 WRs make lapses in the secondary AI more believable. Plus, the general lack of intelligence in the AI is more understandable in the college game, where, again, the talent level is lower than the NFL. But all these issues become inexcusable in an NFL game, especially when there are very few spread-style offenses and the talent level should be higher. I can understand Kase Keenum missing some wide open passes or Arkansas' DBs completely dropping their assignments (or blatant INTs) from time to time; but that doesn't work when it's Peyton Manning and Derrelle Revis and it still happens 5 times per game. This is like saying that if you like a Camry, you shouldn't have an issue with the Lexus ES. But people often do. It's because in its class, the Camry makes sense; it's economical, roomy, reliable, and overall decent (if not great, and plenty of people don't like it, myself included). But you can't slap on some leather upholstery, alloy wheels, a standard Nav unit and a Lexus badge and suddenly expect me to look at it like a true luxury car, even if it is "entry-level luxury." Under the hood, it's still a Camry, and nothing you say is going to make me look at it any other way. And that's just from a gameplay perspective, which is about as close as the games are going to get. In my opinion, the Dynasty mode of NCAA completely blows Madden's Franchise mode away, and it's not even as good as it should be. But the ability to be hired/fired, build programs to perennial powerhouses, and battle for stud recruits week in and week out is something that I find purely addicting. Things like recruiting and signing free agents in Madden becomes more of a chore because they're just menu selections. NCAA's recruiting is the absolute seller for me, because I feel like I'm actually fighting every week for these guys, which then means once they get to my school, I want them to be as good as possible, so I have a connection to them. I'll never have that with a player in Madden. But that's what makes the NCAA package, as a whole, leagues better than Madden in my opinion. The gameplay is quite similar (though, as I said, makes a little more sense in NCAA), but the rest of the package is what keeps me coming back to NCAA year after year. Madden, more or less, has to stand on its gameplay merits, which are severely lacking unfortunately. If I'm going to play a football game based purely on gameplay, it's going to be one of the 2k offerings or even the last gen Madden/NCAAs (where things like weight, momentum, and passing arcs actually existed). For a full dynasty/franchise experience, though, NCAA11 is one of the best ever, and that's largely what makes the game so good. I would much prefer it to have a completely new gameplay engine itself, but I'll put up with the one it's got for now.

Great points, pretty much agree 100%

[carnalnirvana]

what kills madden for me is QB play... now by no means am i saying ncaa does it much better or has better AI

i may be biased because i love the pro game sooooo much more so i am harsh on it more but let QB's play like how they play on sunday, i live in NY and i watch all the giants pre game and local shows i hear eli say this over and over we dont have the possesion catch short neat route running guys we will look to get it down field alot this year, then i pop in madden and every pattern the giants run is for 10-15 yds....

when stats compiled by nfl network shows that the giants by average threw it 30-45 yds 65% of the passes they attempted.

ever wonder why stats are off, eli mostly went for deep throws becuase he rarely dunks and dinks, so he does not have a killer avg or QB rating yet madden has him playing like his brother extremely efficient...


thats the issue where is the research and player tendencies in the pro game, NOW iwas happy to see peyton in the demo throw 6 passes over 30yds on me in one game( yes i am counting)

[J-Unit40]

Quote: Originally Posted by Card-me

I personally don't think that, on the field, either game is particularly great. Football has been done much better before. However, somebody earlier mentioned that the engine fit better with the college game, and I think that that's probably true, at least for non-pro-style teams. I don't really enjoy playing as teams with pro-style offenses in NCAA because the breakdowns in the blocking, running and passing become immediately apparent, but they're not so bad in spread or other shotgun-based offenses. But in Madden, pro-style is all you've got, and the EA engine just sucks there; the running animations are messed up, the line interactions are terrible, the passing physics are only decent (though much better than previous years), and there never seems to be a good balance in the passing game between the receivers and secondary. The limited number of receivers means that either the DBs are locked onto receivers or they're completely lost. All I run with in NCAA is the spread, and it's specifically designed in real life to combat these issues with players of generally lower talent or ability. The speed of the game and the use of options, sweeps, and pitches help to hide the issues with the line interactions, and the constant use of 3, 4, and 5 WRs make lapses in the secondary AI more believable. Plus, the general lack of intelligence in the AI is more understandable in the college game, where, again, the talent level is lower than the NFL. But all these issues become inexcusable in an NFL game, especially when there are very few spread-style offenses and the talent level should be higher. I can understand Kase Keenum missing some wide open passes or Arkansas' DBs completely dropping their assignments (or blatant INTs) from time to time; but that doesn't work when it's Peyton Manning and Derrelle Revis and it still happens 5 times per game. This is like saying that if you like a Camry, you shouldn't have an issue with the Lexus ES. But people often do. It's because in its class, the Camry makes sense; it's economical, roomy, reliable, and overall decent (if not great, and plenty of people don't like it, myself included). But you can't slap on some leather upholstery, alloy wheels, a standard Nav unit and a Lexus badge and suddenly expect me to look at it like a true luxury car, even if it is "entry-level luxury." Under the hood, it's still a Camry, and nothing you say is going to make me look at it any other way. And that's just from a gameplay perspective, which is about as close as the games are going to get. In my opinion, the Dynasty mode of NCAA completely blows Madden's Franchise mode away, and it's not even as good as it should be. But the ability to be hired/fired, build programs to perennial powerhouses, and battle for stud recruits week in and week out is something that I find purely addicting. Things like recruiting and signing free agents in Madden becomes more of a chore because they're just menu selections. NCAA's recruiting is the absolute seller for me, because I feel like I'm actually fighting every week for these guys, which then means once they get to my school, I want them to be as good as possible, so I have a connection to them. I'll never have that with a player in Madden. But that's what makes the NCAA package, as a whole, leagues better than Madden in my opinion. The gameplay is quite similar (though, as I said, makes a little more sense in NCAA), but the rest of the package is what keeps me coming back to NCAA year after year. Madden, more or less, has to stand on its gameplay merits, which are severely lacking unfortunately. If I'm going to play a football game based purely on gameplay, it's going to be one of the 2k offerings or even the last gen Madden/NCAAs (where things like weight, momentum, and passing arcs actually existed). For a full dynasty/franchise experience, though, NCAA11 is one of the best ever, and that's largely what makes the game so good. I would much prefer it to have a completely new gameplay engine itself, but I'll put up with the one it's got for now.

You nailed it. Well said Card-me.

What you said above, coupled with my passion for college football, is exactly why NCAA > Madden in my world. This comes from someone who has bought Madden 4 of the last 5 years. I'm actually on the fence after the demo.

[vision]

Quote: Originally Posted by permanent1

My opinion on this matter is people love NCAA because it went from average to really good in one year,madden was already at good last year and barely got better this year when you have such a big leap in quality like NCAA has had people tend to really be happy but of course we all have our opinions. Some people try to present their opinions as if it were a fact on here,we all know what they say about opinions.

I keep hearing this argument. But that isn't the case for me. I went from Madden 10 to NCAA 11. Didn't play NCAA 10. NCAA 11 is simply the better football game to me. It's seems more polished, graphics are more realistic, camera is more dynamic. If Madden just copied NCAA and slapped NFL logos and jerseys on this, Madden 11 would be a definite buy for me.