Community Perceptions and Relearning the Running Game

[Valdarez]

With regards to double teaming, in APF2K8 you could assign a DB to a player. This didn't always make him man lock on him (think you could man lock though), but it would have him cheat towards the player if two of them entered a zone and the defender could only cover one of the players. Unfortunately this resulted in a bug that randomly assigned your player to guys ALL throughout the game (sucked, one of the killers on it and it was never patched). I haven't messed with matching in Madden all that much. I'm going to guess that it gives you the ability to man up one man on another man. Does it provide any way to have your players prioritize one player over another for double zone situations etc? Or anything in addition to manning up players 1 vs 1?

As for the running, I don't see how anyone should be complaining this year. Even on Madden difficulty, it's pretty darn easy to run. They fixed the run blocking, but they didn't fix the defensive pursuit. There's still no concept of coverage lanes in the defensive game.

[BobbyColtrane]

are there on the fly audibles in next gen madden? i ask bc this is my first year playing on 360.

[cam780]

Quick question. Are there double teams in Madden 11? I admittedly didn't play 2010 much but I don't remember any and I just got done with the "heavy snow" game thread and there's a bunch of videos there. I checked out the Pitt one and the Miami one and I didn't see any double teaming. This is big for me because if they fix the 3-4 its almost enough for me to stand in line on the 10th.

[Sven Draconian]

Quote: Originally Posted by Palo20

Good stuff ADem. Here's my question: In Madden, how will the great Nose Tackles separate themselves? In real life, how do they separate themselves? DLine play in Madden basically has 2 options: Spin or Swim. Neither of these moves is something a good Nose Tackle would perform in the running game, correct? All of the good Nose Tackles have strong Power moves and weak Finesse moves in the game--they also have high BSH. But shouldn't it be that the good nost tackles are able to hold their ground and will come off those blocks only if the ball carrier is in his gap? The bad nose tackles should pretty much get driven into the second level by the double team. Is this well replicated in Madden, and if not, how could it be better implemented?

Nobody's job, regardless of the defense, is to get blocked. The job is to control a gap (which, fundamentally means not being blocked....if you are being blocked you don't control sh*t now do you?)

There are different techniques about how to control the gap. Some styles penetrate the gap. Some styles try to anchor and hold the gap.

The prototype of a NG (Guys like Hampton/Wilfolk) are trying to anchor in the gap (or, both A gaps, if that's what is called for). Get your hands on the center's breast plate, move laterally with him, lock the elbows. If you can belly him back and cause a little disruption...great. Your job is to control the A-gap...so the back can't run through it (be it cutback or designed).

If you get a double from the play-side guard, no problem. Hold your ground (throw you hip like you are boxing out) if need be. That's a win. Why? Because the guard's a** is in the a-gap. If the guard is standing in A-gap, the back can't run into it. It's controlled. If the guard leaves, you better get the elbows locked and be able to play the a-gap. The center can't ever get his head on your playside hip/shoulder. If that happens, the A-gap is open (since, he is between you and any potential ball carrier playing the A gap).

Unfortunately, Madden doesn't have the elbow-lock animation. Instead, the lineman throw the blocker and penetrate.

[cheapargentina]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sven Draconian

Nobody's job, regardless of the defense, is to get blocked. The job is to control a gap (which, fundamentally means not being blocked....if you are being blocked you don't control sh*t now do you?) There are different techniques about how to control the gap. Some styles penetrate the gap. Some styles try to anchor and hold the gap. The prototype of a NG (Guys like Hampton/Wilfolk) are trying to anchor in the gap (or, both A gaps, if that's what is called for). Get your hands on the center's breast plate, move laterally with him, lock the elbows. If you can belly him back and cause a little disruption...great. Your job is to control the A-gap...so the back can't run through it (be it cutback or designed). If you get a double from the play-side guard, no problem. Hold your ground (throw you hip like you are boxing out) if need be. That's a win. Why? Because the guard's a** is in the a-gap. If the guard is standing in A-gap, the back can't run into it. It's controlled. If the guard leaves, you better get the elbows locked and be able to play the a-gap. The center can't ever get his head on your playside hip/shoulder. If that happens, the A-gap is open (since, he is between you and any potential ball carrier playing the A gap). Unfortunately, Madden doesn't have the elbow-lock animation. Instead, the lineman throw the blocker and penetrate.

you are right Dline men are supposed to eat blocks only when blitzing to allow LBs to run free

[adembroski]

Quote: Originally Posted by cheapargentina

you are right Dline men are supposed to eat blocks only when blitzing to allow LBs to run free

That's not really true either. I think the disconnect is our interpretations of "being blocked". If you have the center turned away from the gap and the guard boxed into the gap, you are not being blocked. In fact, you're effectively blocking them.

As Sven said, its never the goal to get blocked. The goal is, sometimes, to beat blocks, and beating blocks doesn't always mean penetrating. The "A-Nose's-job is to tie up blockers" idea is a gross oversimplification.

There are many misconceptions that are widely held by the Madden community... so much so that every year there are a few things EA gets right that gets complained about. I know people don't believe it, but I can think of two people on the Madden team that have forgotten more about football than 99% of people on this site will ever know. (for the record, Sven Draconian and LBzrule are pretty much the other 1%).

[guaps]

While you're right about relearning running - and also the run defense - it is pretty much still a lottery. I've run against fronts in the demo that you supposedly couldn't run against and broken off for long gains and vice versa have defended (or at least tried to) against the run, just to see the HB break off for long gains.

The key issues here are broken tackles and the lack of physical interaction. Because multiple players cannot engage unless Pro-Tak is activated (which is a rare occasion), you'll often see the "I'm-out-of-here" animation from the HB, while several defenders are lying on the ground after bouncing off the initial tackle. This doesn't always result in a TD run, but often gives the HB a 5-10 yard run, when he should have been stopped for a loss or at the line of scrimmage.

The main thing I've learned from playing defense in the demo is to always switch to a non-engaged defender when the tackling starts, and keep him waiting 5 yards behind the "gang-tackle" just in case. Not something I will call far more realistic.

[Palo20]

One of the issues I've had with the running game in Madden/NCAA, particularly outside runs, is that the presence of the CB will make or break the run. Common Madden strategies in the past involve either motioning a TE toward the play side (nothing wrong with this), or motioning a WR away from play side when D is in man (to take the CB away from the play). The presence of the CB should NOT determine the outcome of the run. The DLine, LBs and Safeties should still be the most important run stopping players. Also, for "sim" purposes, NFL offenses don't line up, and just decide let's motion this guy right now so we can run outside--motion and shifting is predetermined.

An example is lining up in I Form Normal and running a toss right. Once again, the common strategy is to take the WR on the right, and motion him left, bringing the CB with him making it I Form Twins, then it basically becomes a race to the corner for the HB.

Running w/Twin WR should not be more effective than running in a balanced set.