Bill Abner's Review

[Mike32Ownz]

Quote: Originally Posted by mrprice33

Have you ever played the game on pro (the default setting)? Have you ever had trouble with robo qb or wonky db ai (on the user side)? Pro is hilariously easy, made more so by the issues that usually work in favor of the user. However, we are getting off track. It was your assertion that the reviewer should dock points from the score due to the necessity of sliders in creating a balanced, realistic, sim game. It is my assertion that ALL sports games need slider tweaks (and this has evidence in their respective slider forums) and to dock one is to dock all. People like to refer to games like NBA 2k and MLB the show as "perfect" sports games which reach the pinnacle of realism and simulation, without any adjustments necessary. I think the evidence (and the people on those boards) would speak to the contrary.

I dont think we should have to make sliders anyway. Why cant the game play right out of the bag?

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by mrprice33

I think you can look at the relative success of things like the wii and MW2 and look at the lack of success of more "hardcore" experiences like Demon's Souls and Arma and determine that most people are not really looking for some super hardcore experience when they play games. Again, though, even if it were the case that it was a 50/50 split between hardcore and casual, one of those gamers is much more likely than the other to just pop the game in and play it on default (the casual), while the other is much more likely to change difficulty and tweak sliders (the hardcore). Why force the casual gamer to dig into menus they don't even understand just to get their enjoyment of the game? If the hardcore was going to do it anyway, let them. It makes sense.

You are confusing two different things. I am talking about realism.

Demon's Souls, a game I own and love, is an extremely hard game. It is not realistic though lol.

Looking at sales doesn't tell the whole story. Super Mario is the greatest selling game of all time. Why is it that the players don't eat mushrooms and turn into Giants and stomp on each other lol? I'm going in to the extreme, but the point is that you can't say look at MW2 and what they sold. MW2 isn't a complete gun simulation so obviously people don't want sim.

Straw man.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mike32Ownz

I dont think we should have to make sliders anyway. Why cant the game play right out of the bag?

I'm pretty sure it's because we are all different. What plays right for you , might not play right for me.

For offline franchise, I've never owned a sports game that I haven't touched a slider.

[Bill_Abner]

Lock me in a room and shine a light in my face and a gun to my head and force me to pick a game merely on gameplay alone -- and this year I am going with NCAA. The reason is that I think NCAA requires fewer gameplay adjustments. Yes, I gave NCAA a B and Madden a B+ but this is almost entirely due to Dynasty being FUBAR. NCAA 11's Dynasty Mode is worse than the untouched Madden 11 franchise mode. Or at least it was until the tuning pack.

Madden and NCAA do play similarly but if you are really happy with NCAA and are seriously questioning whether or not you need Madden..I'd just stick with NCAA; it's a great game. I don't think you are missing much by not getting Madden unless you simply need/want an NFL game or love the idea of Team Online Co-Op (which is hilariously entertaining). Hope that helps.

Quote: Originally Posted by sanders

Would you say that with the slider tweaks that Madden is at least very close to what NCAA offers on the field? and that given what I care about the game is worth picking up?

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by mrprice33

Have you ever played the game on pro (the default setting)? Have you ever had trouble with robo qb or wonky db ai (on the user side)? Pro is hilariously easy, made more so by the issues that usually work in favor of the user. However, we are getting off track. It was your assertion that the reviewer should dock points from the score due to the necessity of sliders in creating a balanced, realistic, sim game. It is my assertion that ALL sports games need slider tweaks (and this has evidence in their respective slider forums) and to dock one is to dock all. People like to refer to games like NBA 2k and MLB the show as "perfect" sports games which reach the pinnacle of realism and simulation, without any adjustments necessary. I think the evidence (and the people on those boards) would speak to the contrary.

Yes, that is my assertion. I never said that no other other game was guilty of this though. You said that for me. My whole point is I don't feel that a game that is supposed to be sim, should require me to tweak sliders to make it so. Period. The reviewer, in case you missed it, agreed.

If it can be made sim with sliders, then it CAN be made sim, or more sim. So what you are saying is that the developers PURPOSELY made it un-sim, so why is it being marketed as sim?

And I never asked Abner to dock any points for his review. Another point you are trying to make for me. All I said was I don't see how he came to the conclusion of the score, when he said that this supposedly sim game, doesn't play very sim. That's all.

[mrprice33]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

You are confusing two different things. I am talking about realism. Demon's Souls, a game I own and love, is an extremely hard game. It is not realistic though lol. Looking at sales doesn't tell the whole story. Super Mario is the greatest selling game of all time. Why is it that the players don't eat mushrooms and turn into Giants and stomp on each other lol? I'm going in to the extreme, but the point is that you can't say look at MW2 and what they sold. MW2 isn't a complete gun simulation so obviously people don't want sim. Straw man.

Do you have any evidence to the contrary? Why has a game like MW stuck while a game like ARMA hasn't? Why does Guitar Hero do better than Rock Band? Why does Wii dominate 360/ps3? It's because people don't want realism, because with realism comes difficulty.

But again, we're going down that road. Argue from the positive instead of the negative. Why would it be a good idea for EA to tune the game to the hardcore out of the box as opposed to the casual? What purpose would it serve, and what difference would it make?

[mrprice33]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

Yes, that is my assertion. I never said that no other other game was guilty of this though. You said that for me. My whole point is I don't feel that a game that is supposed to be sim, should require me to tweak sliders to make it so. Period. The reviewer, in case you missed it, agreed. If it can be made sim with sliders, then it CAN be made sim, or more sim. So what you are saying is that the developers PURPOSELY made it un-sim, so why is it being marketed as sim? And I never asked Abner to dock any points for his review. Another point you are trying to make for me. All I said was I don't see how he came to the conclusion of the score, when he said that this supposedly sim game, doesn't play very sim. That's all.

But you do realize that this is the case for every sports game that comes out, and that you should be making this same post for every review of every sports game, right?

This is stupid. We will continue to go around in circles over and over until one of us just says "enough!" I invoke "enough!" now, and will get back to playing my tweaked, therefore more sim, Madden.

[Only1LT]

Last point on the sim/slider thing and then I'll leave it alone.

The majority of what I think is un-sim about this game, a slider can not fix. The way players move. The animations. The poor player interaction. Lack of true gang tackling. Weight and momentum not being factored in.

These are my main issues.