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How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?
This is a discussion on How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE? within the Madden NFL Old Gen forums.
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09-20-2010, 01:42 PM | #9 |
Banned
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Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?
How close? About as close as the Browns winning a super bowl, I'm afraid.
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09-20-2010, 01:50 PM | #10 |
Banned
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Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?
OK, Im glad Im not alone.....Also, I want to keep this discussion open, objective, but most of all,....productive and thought provoking. Otherwise it wont serve any purpose if it becomes a EA bashing thread.
I find it intriguing that some people object to innovation design changes for fear of 'breaking' something that is working. I guess my question to that would be, is it better to live in mediocrity and comfort zones from year to year with just new rosters and tweaks or do some of you yearn for radical change and evolution? I for one, have been playing this game since the Sega Genesis days, and I am seriously craving them to really break out of this sameness they've been in for a long time. Usually, to achieve this effectively, you need to just bring in new blood...new programmers and designers that have fresh new ideas. Now Im certainly not calling for people to get replaced or fired...but rather bring in some fresh new perspectives to work along side the current team to inject some new ways to approach the game. And Im not talking about adding more detailed textures, faces or skin, etc. ....What I'm talking about starts with a high level round table Project management meeting with the entire design team to brainstorm new ideas and innovative gameplay elements to recharge this DejaVu Franchise. Im talking about leaving no stones unturned. Im talking about rethinking the passing engine and controls, ....brainstorm how to make it more fun and interact giving the player more controlled input rather than soley relying on just dice rolls and scripted ball trajectories to determine results Im talking about more immersive and controllable hitting and tackling that utilizes momentum, physics and locational damage (hitting different areas yields different results with different players) Im talking about rethinking attributes and player ratings and how they shape a player's performance and generate individualism and variety Im talking about rethinking how the CPU uses its AI and how it can behave with more human tendancy as well as more human mistakes Im talking about rethinking the Franchise and how to give it more detail and things a player can do to enhance their experience Im talking about rethinking how the player can better interact with the game and its controls Im talking about rethinking how the game can better reward the player for playing intelligently and tactfully sound football. Im talking about rethinking how the game can better simulate the grunts, groans, shoulder pads, helmet to helmet contact.....create a more dynamic and realistic sounding world out on the field rather than just scripted and simple repetitious crunch sounds over and over Im talking about rethinking how the crowd should dynamically react to events on the field and really interact with more realistic variety throughout the entire game to recreate a true authentic stadium environment with over 60,000 crazed fans. Im talking about really thinking about adding a whole nother dimmension of immersion by generating gameplans and scouting reports that give the player the ability to handicap and scout opponents to better prepare for different teams There is so much that can be discussed in this high level meeting that can take this game to another level than where its been at for years now....at least thats how I would do it if I was part of the management team in the Madden franchise Last edited by Lisa_Bonami; 09-20-2010 at 01:54 PM. |
09-20-2010, 01:52 PM | #11 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
49ers
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Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?
So I presume you're talking the core mechanics that form the central gameplay of both Madden and NCAA. If that's the case, then the process you're asking for is occurring piecemeal as it stands. Locomotion and run blocking were both ripped out and replaced this past season.
As far as replicating the sport of football, I'm afraid that from a tactical sense, Madden still does a better job. Sure, the tackles themselves are very realistic in BB, but we're back to "once there's contact, sit back and enjoy the view" gameplay that takes the dynamicism completely out of the game. Madden is mistuned in this respect (too many broken tackles), but the utter predictability of the result of the hit kills it for me.
That said, it doesn't do a very good job of mirroring player style... but neither did 2k5. Both have general AI scripts that cover all players in all situations. Randy Moss and Terrell Owens stood out in 2k5 as well done because the AI scripts mirrored how they play in real life. Every WR in 2k5 played like Terrell Owens. Furthermore, the ratings meant very little in 2k5. That was my biggest complaint about that game. I never felt the difference between Payton Manning and Tim Rattay. Some backs I did, and some receivers made better targets, but outside of those two positions it felt like everyone was identical except that Player A was somehow "better" than Player B.
NFL 2k5 did a great job with the 'enhancing' parts of the game. That is, the areas that aren't necessary, but round out the experience. When those parts of the game are so polished, it makes you overlook small flaws. Madden doesn't do those as well, and thus the flaws pop out. NFL 2k5 played a better game of football, but by what degree? Money plays were there, every game featured 8-10 sacks, 3-6 interceptions, unreal numbers of blown coverages, motion bugs, locomotion that didn't apply in circumstances that would hurt the CPU, etc.. But the announcers were good and the replays looked cool... so we forgive.
What will follow those up? Run fits? pass blocking? Coverage? Defensive alignment? Those kinds of things will continually improve the game play. Quite honestly, the presentation has potential. It's unpolished at the moment. Some minor changes in design would have made an immense difference. Commentary... I dunno, that might be a lost cause at this point, but otherwise, it's coming along. Slower than I'd like, but it's progressing.
What I do feel it for is NCAA 11. If that is any indication of what Madden is capable of, then I do have high hopes.
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09-20-2010, 01:53 PM | #12 |
Observer
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Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?
While I do feel that EA Tiburon needs to deliver a better representation of football, I believe EA can improve Madden using the current software or 'engine', if they are willing to make some changes. Oh, and for the record, I hope that we will not see the cursor based passing of NFL Fever 2004 or the rag-doll-like physics of Backbreaker in Madden.
Basically all the large EA Sports franchises (Madden, NCAA, FIFA, NHL, NBA Elite) are running on versions of the same software, so if one thing is possible in one of the other games, the chances of something being possible in Madden is very high. I personally would like a more realistic approach to passing - call it route-based passing, NFL style passing or whatever you like - but receivers are supposed to stick to their routes and QB are supposed pass to the spot where the receiver is supposed to be at. The current passing system in Madden is a very poor representation of the passing in the NFL - especially since receivers and defenders don't have too see the ball to know where it is and where it is going. Also in Madden, you don't have to respect the play calling nor the routes your receiver runs, as you can improvise freely. With regards to physics I've seen that they are possible in Fight Night Round 4 and NHL 11 (also NBA Elite 11 is being released soon). This tells us that physical interactions are possible with the current software and therefore quite possible that we'll see it in Madden at some time soon (I hope, it will be incorporate in 12 or 13). As I mentioned above I'm not a big fan of Backbreaker. I have respect for their attempt to create a physics-based football game, but there is something about the physics in that game that looks and feels odd to me. I would actually prefer an attempt to incorporate physics in the animation-based software of Madden (or 2k). I'm planning on doing a blog/thread on my vision on a revamped ratings system with attributes for Madden next month. I'm currently waiting for the release of FIFA 11 to be able to test their system, as the software of all of these games are interconnected at some level. If the other games can incorporate attributes and traits in their systems (and it works!), then it must be possible for Madden as well. Also I'm looking to suggest a more simplified version of the current Madden rating system that currently consists of almost 50 individual ratings, with an overall rating that is basically useless. One aspect of Madden I do not like though is the aspect of player models. Currently everyone behaves the same on the field regardless of height or weight. Animations are driven by ratings only, resulting in some very odd representations on the field. E.g. Lions receivers Calvin Johnson Jr. (6'5", 236) and Stefan Logan (5'7", 180) runs synchronized routes if you give the both the same ACC, AGL and SPD ratings. No difference in stride length, footwork during cuts or anything, because they use the exact same animations for both players. |
09-20-2010, 02:04 PM | #13 |
Banned
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Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?
The game is still selling so well. Nothing will really change. It does not take a lot to please me. I only ask for a dedicated overhaul of the franchise mode. Like I have stated in other threads this years game with the right sliders and gameplanning plays pretty damm good IMO. I am so used to the legacy issues it has become a non-issue. When you have been playing the game as long as I have (and most of you for that matter) I think we all agree there is a reason we have played it for so long. Because it's fun. I thought 2010 was not fun. AI was broken and easy to exploit.
Give us the ulitmate franchsie mode that is what we really really want. I think the game plays good. If you don't then don't buy it anymore. But for those of us who still like Madden give us the features we have been craving for since it's switch to next gen. If it had the same franchise mode as 2005/07 80% of the whining and complaints would cease. Presentation also needs to get an overhaul. If you give us NFL2K5 presentation with a Madden 2005 like franchise mode....you will have a very happy harcore Madden buyer. Thing is with this gen's console power. Franchise and presentation can be even better than NFL2K5 and Madden 2005. Funny how games 10 years old are still the benchmark. What is that saying? Last edited by Todem; 09-20-2010 at 02:09 PM. |
09-20-2010, 02:15 PM | #14 |
MVP
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Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?
much like what Adem said i think parts of the whole are being done, its just a matter how much can be done in one cycle. Defense and return teams needs worked on . one on one interaction needs improved this is where RTP would come into play, i believe this would also help ball placement during passes. commentary don't know how they would fix it. Overall the typical 3 year cycle may be a 4 year cycle for madden IMO
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09-20-2010, 02:17 PM | #15 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Banned
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Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?
Get Gus Johnson and Collinsworth in a booth together and record hundreads of hours of play by play and color interaction together so it sounds like a real game being called. NBA 2K does it....why can't EA? Last edited by Todem; 09-20-2010 at 02:19 PM. |
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09-20-2010, 02:23 PM | #16 |
MVP
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Re: How Close are we to a COMPLETELY NEW Madden ENGINE?
yea todem i think that's what needs to happen more interaction between them two or just saying random football stuff to clear up the awkard silence.
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