New Engine or New Rating Proposal

[Rambo1986]

Posted this in the 'What do you dislike about Madden' thread:

Madden needs a rehaul of the engine. Darren Sproles is 5' 6" 170 lbs, he will not be able to truck anybody except a kicker or a punter. Trucking should tie in to the weight of a player, not just a number. Remove the Trucking rating and bring back Break Tackle. Simplify the entire system, remove Trucking, Elusiveness, Stiff Arm, Juke, etc: Let there be one rating to justify the player and that is "Break Tackle"

If Darren Sproles has 99 Break Tackle, he isn't going to be able to shoulder charge and or stiff arm anyone. He can try to do those things, but come on Sproles trying to truck Urlacher? If Sproles weighed maybe 200 pounds, yeah he can throw Urlacher down because of his speed and weight jamming into Urlacher. Look at Maurice Jones-Drew, 5' 7" 208 lbs he would run Urlacher over just because of his 90+ speed and weight.

Stiff Arm should tie into the Strength rating

Trucking should tie into the Player's Weight + Speed + Strength.

Example:

Darren Sproles 5' 6" 170 lbs running full 97 SPD with his 50+ STR into Urlacher with his shoulder would not do a thing. Unless he caught him off balance, if Urlacher was waiting for it - Sproles is getting negative yardage.

Maurice Jones-Drew 5' 7" 208 lbs running his full 94 SPD with 80 STR into Urlacher with his shoulder. Now, Urlacher will have a bigger chance of falling down. Urlacher is what 240-260. If someone running 94 SPD weighing 208 lbs with 80 STR came running at him, he would have a harder time to knock him down.

Say Urlacher has 99 Tackle but still, the force is coming at him. It will also depend on where his Stamina is at also, Urlacher may be a bit Fatigued and MJD is fresh... there is just so many physics that should tie into the player's ratings.

But anyway, simplified-

Break Tackle: Escaping wrap-ups

Trucking: Player's Weight + Strength + Speed

Stiff Arm: Strength

Juke Move: Agility

Spin Move: Agility

All of these will be dependant on the Stamina rating.

If Chris Johnson has 95 agility and 99 Stamina, he would be able to do more and better will jukes and spin moves than DeAngelo Williams who has 97 agility, 90 Stamina. Johnson may not have as much agility so his spin moves aren't as good But still, Williams gets tired faster so he may only be able to do 5 spin moves and jukes while Johnson can perform well at 7 till his Stamina is pricked. Players get tired after awhile and shouldn't continously break tackles and perform at a high level.

EDIT: It should be Agility + Weight for Jukes and Spin Moves. If you put 99 Agility on Brandon Jacobs who is 280 lbs, he wouldn't be as fluid as a guy who is 225 pounds. Makes sense.

[Rambo1986]

I don't have Madden infront of me, so the ratings are going to be way off just bear with me for this is just an example.

Darren Sproles 5' 6" 170 lbs
SPD 97
AGL 98
ACL 95
BTK 92
STR 52
STM 85
Maurice Jones-Drew 5' 7" 208 lbs
SPD 94
AGL 90
ACL 90
BTK 99
STR 80
STM 96
Brandon Jacobs 6' 4" 264 lbs
SPD 83
AGL 73
ACL 60
BTK 99
STR 85
STM 40

Darren Sproles has amazing Speed, Agility, and Break Tackle so you can tell right away that he is a beast with jukes and spin moves. His performance goes only as far as his 85 Stamina. As he drops Stamina, he wont be able to do it for that long, so he is only good for 5 plays.

Maurice Jones Drew has more: Speed, Agility, Strength, Break Tackle, and Weight! He is a force. He has 96 Stamina so he can break out of tackles and truck people longer. Despite having high Agility, because of his weight and heigh... he wont be as fluid as Darren Sproles. The spin would not be as fast.

Brandon Jacobs has brute Strength and Break Tackle, the Weight he has makes him an amazing Trucker. He can run people over, but his low Stamina just diminishes his performance and he is only good for like 1 or 2 plays. He would be an ideal short yardage back.

[jbrew2411]

I disagree with just one rating (break tackle) to replace 4 ratings. By giving a player just one rating would allow for a lot of the same players. Take a back like Chris Johnson vs Adrien Peterson. Both should have high "break tackle" ratings but they are two different backs. One relies on speed and the other on power. With just one rating they would be the same. What would stop each player from having Barry Sanders like juke moves without a rating? Better yet what would keep the players from having a stiff arm like LT? If EA simplified the ratings then the game would take a huge step back. The game needs more ratings to make the game play right.
Where I do agree is with player weight/size not equal ratings. I have bought Madden every year but 2 (2008 & 2001) since 1995. I play NCAA more then Madden and this has been a issue in NCAA for years. I hate seeing a guy that is 5'8" 175lbs and is listed as a "power back" and has no speed but will truck guys like they are 7 year olds. The only time I have noticed the problem in Madden is when I export a draft class. I do wish EA would allow for ratings and size/weight to match up better.

[sniperhare]

But how Jones-Drew gets out of tackles isn't really represented in Madden's break tackle system.

Jones-Drew rarely trucks people, his best advantage is his low center of gravity and his leg strength. Last I heard he squats around 475 and can leg press almost 600 pounds.

He doesn't really bowl people over, he just gets low and they bounce off him. If they had a physics based game engine he would be a great deal more effective, especially if they could represent his shortness hiding him from defensive players.

MJD has been talked about as the hardest player to tackle in the NFL because they say it's like tackling a fire hydrant or a tree trunk.

[youALREADYknow]

They don't need additional ratings and don't need to change how they do the ratings.

They simply need to use the physics engine calculations to determine animation outcomes. I explained this in detail on the NCAA forums.

These games have physics engines but largely ignore them when it comes time to determine the 0/1 win-loss decision at times of object collision. Velocity, momentum, leverage, etc. all need to play more of a role in collisions.

[DCEBB2001]

Hey guys these are all great ideas here. I have been examining how weight, spd, acc, etc. relate to certain attributes for FBGratings.com and I would love to hear what attributes you think should be related. For instance, trucking being based on a player's weight, speed, and strength. If you can, hash out for me all of the scenarios that you think particular ratings should be based off of and I will see what I can do as far as creating some more realistic ratings for the community.

[RedZoneD25]

Quote: Originally Posted by youALREADYknow

They don't need additional ratings and don't need to change how they do the ratings. They simply need to use the physics engine calculations to determine animation outcomes. I explained this in detail on the NCAA forums. These games have physics engines but largely ignore them when it comes time to determine the 0/1 win-loss decision at times of object collision. Velocity, momentum, leverage, etc. all need to play more of a role in collisions.

I agree completely with one exception. They need to make more ratings, but keep them hidden from the public eye. Also, it wouldn't hurt if they came up with a way to hide the ratings that aren't a part of that players position (Who cares about Tom Brady's pass blocking footwork?) Just to make it seem more finished..

[PGaither84]

Right now, EA has number filled circles running around the field bumping into each other with dice rolls to determine outcomes. In this generation of gaming, and seeing what 2k has put out years ago, we should really be beyond this. That extra level of what is going on on-the-field is important as well.