Instead of potential, how bout...

[RedZoneD25]

Once Madden "matures" and by that I mean can stand on it's own as far as AI trades/CPU roster management and it feels like the other 31 teams have brains as well, I think a "value" rating could come into play. This would require flexible overall ratings as well. A value of 95+ means you can pry all you want, you're not getting them. However, this should be a flexible rating that re-assesses every 4 weeks. It doesn't HAVE to change, but if another player breaks out or you demote him, his "value" could take a hit. This would also means you'd have to be smart trading:

The trader- I'll use the Eagles QBs for example, Michael Vick (pre-rib injury) had WHITE-HOT trade value due to his sudden outburst. Kevin Kolb also has high trade value due to being a) a Reid pick, who is VERY good at building QBs b) Being young and coachable c) Relatively cheap. You could move either guy, but realize you're looking at a more modest deal for Vick even though he broke out huge because he's older and could (likely will) regress faster than Kolb would.

The receiver- If you're the one being offered a trade, you now have to compare value, which is more or less an overall of how desired he is among the league. This becomes scheme based, as Madden would need to implement different schemes locked to each team (although editable) for the 3-4 and 4-3 on defense. If the Eagles wanted to trade for Brandon Jacobs, you'd have to give up more than if the Browns traded for him (division rivalry causes more compensation more often than not, which is why it doesn't often happen)

I know I'm getting in over my head, I just really think Madden could benefit from it.

[PGaither84]

Quote: Originally Posted by DaBallocaust

The reason potential blows is because Kurt Warner - Undrafted Hall of Famer to be, Night Train Lane - Undrafted Hall of Famer, and so forth. I mean modern days, Ahmad Bradshaw was a 7th round draft pick and now is a starter and top 5 in league right now

No... those players would have A potential in Madden terms. Sure, Donny More may not think so right away, but after a roster update that would change. More over, when talking about hand crafted rookies, Josh makes Kurt Warer's and Wes Welker's.

Example here:

Spoiler

In the E. Patterson class, josh Looman created HB S. Wilkerson, an 80 OVR with A potential who is projected to be un-drafted in that class. tat means, unless you draft him as the user, he should not get selected by the computer. However, he is one of the best players in his class. there are other players who are projected to be drafted in the 6th or 7th round that may go un-drafted as well, or will be Tom Brady like steals.

Some people just don't know what they are talking about. They do not have an informed opinion.

[guaps]

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

Some people just don't know what they are talking about. They do not have an informed opinion.

Well, your example points out some major flaws in Madden's AI.

First of all, as soon as the signing of draft picks is over, everybody can see that an undrafted player is, say, an 82 OVR with A potential. Sure you might have missed him in the draft, but post-draft there is no scouting or assessment of players who weren't drafted. Thus there are no 'hidden' gems in that sense, because everything is revealed post-draft.

Furthermore, due to Maddens broken logic that undrafted player will demand a fairly large contract because he is 82 OVR, regardless of the fact that not one single team approached him in the draft.

[rootofalleli]

Quote: Originally Posted by guaps

Well, your example points out some major flaws in Madden's AI. First of all, as soon as the signing of draft picks is over, everybody can see that an undrafted player is, say, an 82 OVR with A potential. Sure you might have missed him in the draft, but post-draft there is no scouting or assessment of players who weren't drafted. Thus there are no 'hidden' gems in that sense, because everything is revealed post-draft. Furthermore, due to Maddens broken logic that undrafted player will demand a fairly large contract because he is 82 OVR, regardless of the fact that not one single team approached him in the draft.

This is a separate problem unrelated to draft AI. Free agency reveals too much. A good offseason would include a period for rookie free agent bidding, without anymore info than we had in the draft.

On Topic: The proposed idea is too much like the old system, which allowed you to draft for speed (and other physical stats) and then train your 60 OVR scrub into a 90+ OVR pro. This isn't bad when it happens sometimes, but it was too easy in the old days to make that happen ALL the time.

A system similar to the Head Coach series would be nice. However, even Head Coach showed too much when a guy was on your team. There should be a hidden rating for Confidence or Motivation or I Love My Coach This Much or Mojo or something. The higher it is, the better the player's ratings get at that moment in the season, relative to the baseline level. The better he performs, the more he holds on to that improvement.

There just needs to be a reason to seek out certain players and to keep some guys as backups. Why do some QBs sit for a year or two? Why do some players suck for this coach and play well for that one? Do some players only respond when there is money on the line? Do some rise to the challenge of big games? What about different schemes and roles?

Madden could address this by having a Motivation (etc) hidden rating that was based on the player's situation. Assistant coaches and scouts could offer tips about who would be a good fit.
"He was a slouch in the 3-4, but he'll tear it up as a 4-3 OLB.
""You're a lot like his college coach- you can motivate him!"
"He needs a year to sit, or his confidence will be damaged."
"He's too raw to cover NFL receivers, but give him a year on the practice squad and we'll see."
"I say trade him- this guy won't play for us."
This would add some strategy to personnel decisions, and it would make your choices for assistants/scouts mean quite a bit more.

[therockstar2005]

I think the point is that potential needs to be impacted somewhat by actual performance. Somewhat is key, because there are certainly players who can take a couple years before they really perform up to their level (ex. Vernon Davis, for multiple reasons). Say, 1st round talent, even if they don't perform up to their level for the first couple years, or they don't even get playing time immediately, could still progress just a little bit, or not regress, that way they could ride the bench and not get worse. You can therefore have players that you actually build up and turn into stars, rather than inheriting players who are supposed to. If you have a player who consistently performs well, their ovr and potential should be affected by it. Likewise, if the player just cannot handle it, their ovr and potential should also fall. This way, you can have 7th round Tom Bradys become great and first round JaMarcus Russells suck.

[PGaither84]

Quote: Originally Posted by therockstar2005

I think the point is that potential needs to be impacted somewhat by actual performance.

It is... I don't want to sound like a jerk, and I am not picking on you... but seriously guys... how many of you play this game? Do you even look at this stuff? There are examples after examples in this game of how it all works. Potential is there so that players with low overall ratings can ride the bench and progress to an extent. That is why there is a "maximum progression" accelerator for sale at the Madden Shop. I don't want to buy it, but it unlocks the maximum progression for all of your players. What that means, is with potential AND when you player "get's his numbers" he will receive his maximum progression. If he rides the bench, he will only progress so much.

Again, the point of this is not only for your team as a user, but the rest of the league. The computer starts players based off of their OVR rating, not positional ratings. While I would rather start 72 OVR T. Cody NT of the ravens because he has all the skills I want in a NT, the game would never make that call. Instead, we have potential to raise a player's abilities while they learn and progress in the depth chart and get ready to play ion the NFL.

A great example of this in action is Colt McCoy. In one franchise I ran, Colt McCoy was the backup QB of the Browns. After one season He became the starter and "got his numbers" and rose up 14 points in his OVR after about 4 or so seasons from a 71 to an 85 OVR QB. In another franchise, a fantasy draft, he was the career backup for Tony Romo and some other team. He never got to start and never "got his numbers," so while he progressed, he wasn't nearly as good as he was in the other franchise. I think he went from a 71 to a 77 or an 80 at most.

[DaBallocaust]

Your not understanding what im saying. That year when the draft ended, did Mel Kiper say, "Oh Kurt Warner, can't believe he wasnt drafted. He is bound to be a hall of famer." NO. Kurt Warner was on the practice squad of the packers. Than he went to the CFL for 3 years and was out of the NFL. In madden, is their any player, that has close to a 40ovr that can blosom to put up KURT WARNER LIKE numbers at there respected postions. NO. They either disappear if you don't resign them, or they never go up even if they start.

[BloodMeridian]

The problem I have is that players don't improve/decline based on gameplay alone.