Instead of potential, how bout...

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Old 10-07-2010, 10:26 PM   #25
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Re: Instead of potential, how bout...

Originally Posted by DaBallocaust
I'll try that with scouting, but what im talking about is that A potential players can't be busts. At all. If they ride the bench their entire career, than yea but than that wouldnt be considered a bust. No matter what happens, because of that A potential, theres a great chance they'll be pro bowl level players.
Isn't that the point of getting the A Potential player? That they are the "good players?" Again, that's why I am upset that every single player in the first round of the real life draft was an A player, except Tebow who is a B potential player. I doubt there are that many "great" players in that round, or that draft.

Also a lack of what I've seen is A potential, low overall players. I would love that having to develop a player. Lowest A potential in a rookie class I've seen myself was a 78. Without the rookie draft class, its a 56ovr kicker Aaron Pettrey.
Well, you cannot see the potential of player you did not draft. they show up as "??" when you look at the computer rosters.

Picking another random class:

There are 24 A potential players. Only one is a kicker. 7 of them have an initial OVR rating below 70, none of those are kickers. the lowest rated one is a 56OVR. A 63OVR is projected to go as high as round 3. Again, not a kicker. The lowest OVR A potential player projected to go in the 1st round is a 76OVR. On the other hand, there is a 76 OVR with C potential projected to go in the first round, along with an 82 OVR B potential player.

Another thing to keep in mind is that some of these A potential players that start with a low OVR rating will take along time to progress. So much time that it may be better to have a high OVR B potential player instead. The more I look at the hand crafted classes, the more I like them. It's really just up to the end user not to cheat themselves.
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Old 10-08-2010, 02:00 AM   #26
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Re: Instead of potential, how bout...


My idea would fix this problem. Even includes the same ideas as expectations. Also, takes into account the ratings of your GM. Better GM equals better personnel decisions and better scouting.
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Old 10-08-2010, 02:40 AM   #27
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Re: Instead of potential, how bout...

I always feel like I have to point out the inherent differences between video game "potential" and real life "potential".

In real life, when we use the word potential, we're talking about the football world's perception of how good a guy could become, just as ratings are the football world's perception of how good a guy is.

In the video game, these aren't perceptions, they're concrete, measurable facts.

The ratings, and potential, are both abstractions. I don't know about you guys, but I don't have the time to spend 40 hours to spend in practice mode before every game to determine who my best players are. I also don't have the time to pour over replays of NCAA 11 games in order to figure out who I should draft. Abstraction is a necessary part of sports video games.

So, is it unrealistic to have a potential grade? Sure, in a sense, but it has to be understood that in real life all we can go on is perception.

Two examples; Jake Plummer and Kurt Warner.

Jake Plummer was perceived to be a solid NFL prospect with off-the-charts potential. His strengths were a strong competitive drive, outstanding leadership, good accuracy, and a knack for making things happen when a play broke down. I'd say in modern Madden terms, he'd be built as a 76 OVR rookie with an "A" potential...

In reality, Plummer was mistake prone and never quite got a grip on running an NFL offense. His knack for making things happen when a play broke down in college turned into a tendency to try to do too much and he became a turnover machine. 76 was probably a fair rating, but it didn't go up much. I'd say he probably hit about an 83 or so his one good year in Denver. Otherwise, he never achieved that potential.

Does that mean he never had an "A" potential? No, it means he never reached it.

(for the record, I would argue that JaMarcus Russell never had an "A" potential to begin with, he was just overrated)

Now Kurt Warner... Undrafted, unknown. Had anyone taken the time to figure him out, we'd probably know he had solid accuracy and adequate arm strength from his play in the AFL, but could he adjust to the NFL game? There was no reason to believe he'd develop into anything special... "F" potential, probably a 65 overall.

Then Trent Green got hurt, and we saw the real Kurt Warner. Now, here's the key; we thought Kurt Warner was a 65-F. He wasn't. He was a 99-A... our perception was wrong this time. He didn't "progress" over the course of that season, he was already that good, and he proved it over the course of his career.

There we have the problematic difference between video games and real life. We have this information, concrete and indisputable, at our fingertips in video games. Oh, what NFL coaches would do to be able to look at a spreadsheet and know at a glance.

But how do you fix it? Do you hide all the ratings? I don't wanna spend hours in practice mode just to decide who should start.

I say we keep the ratings, and potential, but make them "perceptions".

I would say that 60% of players end up being right around what they're perceived to be. Another 30% are close to that. The final 10% are either far better or far worse than we expect. These numbers are off the top of my head, don't go doing a study based on that, just throwing out an example.

So, if we can look at a players ratings and know that they might not be right, then we are forced to take some time to look over players (all of the sudden, preseason has meaning in Madden!) and get a feel for how good they really are. But we want them to be accurate most of the time... otherwise we ignore them, and we're in the same position as if there weren't any.

There should be an "X Factor" option in Madden's franchise mode... the same that existed in Front Office Football. This automatically adjusts a significant but not overwhelming number of players around the league for better or worse, for ratings or potential, at random, so if a user decides he wants some uncertainty to his roster, he can add that.

Anyways, I'm tired and babbling at this point. I've thought this through far too much, but maybe tomorrow I'll post my ridiculously long "plan" for potential and progression tomorrow just to give you guys something to read.
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Old 10-08-2010, 02:59 AM   #28
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Re: Instead of potential, how bout...

Adembroski, read my link! I think we share the same type of ideas.
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Old 10-08-2010, 11:39 AM   #29
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Re: Instead of potential, how bout...

adembroski, so far I agree with your suggestion completely.

My only addition (I have tons of idea about progression, but that's not for this topic) is that player contracts should not be based entirely on ratings. I think part of the reason people dislike potential as it currently stands is that if their F rated player performs well on their team, that player will not demand realistic money based on their performance. In addition, other teams will not value that player based on their performance when discussing trades. Basically, for certain positions, there needs to be a hidden rating that reflects their statistical performance. That rating will influence the players value in contract and trade negotiations.

The other issue, using your example of Jake Plummer: You said that he would have been an A potential, but simply never reached that potential. This is another problem with the current system because players with A potential seemingly ALWAYS advance to some degree at the beginning of their careers. Then again, this I suppose would be more of a progression issue..
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Old 10-28-2010, 11:24 PM   #30
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Re: Instead of potential, how bout...

Originally Posted by DaBallocaust
Expectations. It pisses me off how i signed a 39 overall rookie with F potential and in 2 games, he has 4interceptions 13tackles 1td, BUT he cant ever go up. With Expectations, everything could be different. Say my 39overall safety is expected to end the season with 40tackles and 0 intos. If i get 52 tackles for 3intos maybe he goes up to a 52overall. Now my 22yr old 52overall is expected 52 tackles with 2 intos. If i get 51 tackles and 6intos maybe he goes up to a 66overall. Now as a 23yr old 66 overall safety he is expected 60tackles and 4 intos. If he has a stunner 79tackle 8into year, now has between 80-85 overall going into his 4th year. I mean this could really work. Like how bout 55 and under overall's can only progress the most by 20pts if and only if he like triples the expected. And so forth, 70-75 -15, 75-80 - 10, 81 - 9 82 - 8 83 - 7 84 - 6 85+ - 5. That would be beautiful. Because look at the roster updates. They add points to guys because theyre expectations get raised. What do u think?
Maybe both. Maybe expectations before they're drafted and potential after. But I don't know if EA can ever find a way to do potential since it might change once or twice for a player in the NFL
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