Make Madden more arcade?

[stp2081]

Quote: Originally Posted by LiquorLogic

Madden has lost it's fun factor because Tiburon is using the same legacy code that they've been using for the last six years or more. Than play another sports game; football is a chess match. If you take out that aspect, it's not football.

I agree with this. I love the gridiron chess-match aspect of football. If Madden joined the ranks of Blitz and Backbreaker and as a result there was no new sim-type football game available, I'd be quite bummed.

[ryan36]

Quote: Originally Posted by stp2081

I agree with this. I love the gridiron chess-match aspect of football. If Madden joined the ranks of Blitz and Backbreaker and as a result there was no sim-type football game available, I'd be quite bummed.

So is the current gameplay sim enough for you? I'm saying it is for me. I think they can make the game more fun by instituting elements you see from other top-tier sports games, that aren't in Madden currently.

[Crimsontide27]

Quote: Originally Posted by ryan36

I told Phil Frazier on meebo one day that the gameplay wasn't my problem, but the commentary/presentation made it hard for me to play. He just said "thanks for the feedback." I actually complimented the gameplay... I think it's realistic enough as it is. I'm still mad they added the stutter step to the wildcat to fix "online" , and ruined an otherwise fun formation for us offline guys. It doesn't have to be perfect. I no longer think the gameplay is what's holding this game back. If it was just immersive , I could over look all the psychic DB stuff, for example . That's what I'm saying

You have to be trolling...

There is no way the "gameplay" is / was good on any level.

You are not onto something new here. You are not the first person to have that lightbulb moment that Madden needs better commentary and presentation.

People have been complaining about this going on a decade now. Now with people being able to see the advances in every other genre but football, people are losing hope. There are many excellent sport titles out there that have been improving quite nicely over the years whereas Madden has not.

Matter of fact...there is an arcade version of Madden already...ironically its called " Madden Arcade" Its a fun gimmik for 5 minutes.

Your 20/20 hindsight vision is amazing, this very game that you think is a brilliant and new idea is now on xbox live with very little interest or anyone playing.

[stp2081]

Quote: Originally Posted by ryan36

So is the current gameplay sim enough for you? I'm saying it is for me. I think they can make the game more fun by instituting elements you see from other top-tier sports games, that aren't in Madden currently.

I suppose the issue is then what the devs can do to "improve" Madden. Personally, I'd rather see continued improvement in the simulation aspect (such as gang tackling working better (no "tumbleweed tackling"), head coaches making more of a difference for user-controlled teams, IR working properly, better & more realistic defensive AI, QB composure/awareness mattering when the QB is user-controlled, etc., and/or as the offline franchise thread suggests, more sim-overhaul of franchise mode) rather than arcade-style presentation.

[ryan36]

I'm not trolling...I enjoyed M10. I'm a sim gamer, but I'm not the guy who labs for weeks, and tweaks sliders. I turn up the D a little, and have fun. I didn't like M11, because it felt half done...

but I feel like if they just kicked *** with presentation/commentary, and gave up on this "sim" idea they have , said "we're sim enough", the game would be fun again.

Nobody will play something that's called "________ (any game) arcade" because it implies limited depth /features. If you had a full featured game, like we do now, but the defense hit big (and didn't cause a fumble every time ) you had full rosters, and a good franchise...I think this game would be good enough. It's sim enough for me , it just feels lacking in so many areas.

[ryan36]

Quote: Originally Posted by stp2081

rather than arcade-style presentation.

Not arcade presentation. authentic presentation, and admitting they don't have a completely sim game. If they can do sim, it'd have been done by now. I don't believe they can fix this game.

When they have to pick between tuning play action, so you don't get sacked so much, and a surprise onside kick, that tells me their build is unworkable.

Ian asked to make a completely new build, and was denied. So I feel this would be a better step...to let the game play true to it's original next gen build.

[LiquorLogic]

Quote: Originally Posted by ryan36

Well, some of the pre snap stuff was cool, and simple last gen. Line shifts, DB press/deep cover, line pinch, and slide protect. Beyond that, to me isn't necessary if the game plays well. I just think their current build doesn't allow them to do 'sim.' But if it looked more like what I see on TV on Sunday , presentation wise, then the gameplay is good enough as it is...

We had more pre-snap options last gen. Just because the options are there doesn't mean you have to use them. I, on the other hand, like all the options and want more. Why take options away from users who wish to use them? You're basically asking EA to dumb the game down. Judging by the direction that essentially every other sports title is going, sim is the way to go. If sim hampers Madden, it would hamper all sports games.

I don't think it's the build that limits Madden; I think the development team is what is limited. APF's gameplay was sim, and that was made three years ago. You're telling me that 2k had more tools three years ago than Tiburon has now ? I seriously doubt that. EA has made better football games, last gen, than M11; they have the tools.

It's not the size of the boat: it's the motion of the ocean.

Quote: Originally Posted by ryan36

Not arcade presentation. authentic presentation, and admitting they don't have a completely sim game. If they can do sim, it'd have been done by now. I don't believe they can fix this game. When they have to pick between tuning play action, so you don't get sacked so much, and a surprise onside kick, that tells me their build is unworkable. Ian asked to make a completely new build, and was denied. So I feel this would be a better step...to let the game play true to it's original next gen build.

They can't, or won't, fix the game with the current budget. Remember, EA has to pay that hefty licensing fee to the NFL every year. That's were the money is going: it's going to licensing and marketing.

I guarantee you that if EA faces a viable competitor,the game will be sim. They may not pull it off, but that will be the direction they'll go because that's what people want. They want realism. They realism in the way of players, teams and stadiums, so it's natural that they'll want to experience that realism in game-play.

Seriously, I don't get this notion that realism equals less fun. The NFL sure isn't boring when I watch it on TV, and it's realistic because it's reality. I don't see how simulating the sport, as well as it's done in other genres, would make Madden boring.

[Crimsontide27]

It does lack many features , that is most certainly not in dispute. They know what they are lacking as they have been told over...and over...and over...and over...and over...etc.

Especially now with the league cracking down on the head to head collisions etc, there is no way the NFL will allow a game to come out with big hits as a "feature" As a matter of fact, the NFL has input into what can not and will not be put into the game.

The game is dead and lifeless because its the same exact game we have been playing going on 20+ years. Each and every year they add a feature or two that usually doesnt work, fix it the next year, then remove it the following year. While saying the game is exactly the same from the early 90s is an exaggeration, the amount of change from year to year is usually pretty minimal. This will not ever change.

The only way to get the fun back in football is to let other companies make games too. This cant not be argued against. NFL2k5 had many issues, but it was so far ahead of its time in certain areas that it was easy to overlook some of the negatives, whereas in Madden its grown so stale and boring that its real easy to see its faults because there is nothing else there to be amazed with.

Once competition returns to the gridiron, you will see this Madden that we have grown not to like get a new breath of fresh air. Then...and only then will you see Madden shift to anything more than the status quo that we have been getting year in and out.