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Madden Needs Team, Player, & Coach Tendency Ratings

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Old 10-28-2010, 06:07 AM   #1
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Madden Needs Team, Player, & Coach Tendency Ratings

For those of us that have played NBA Live 10, NBA 2K11, FIFA 11, or NHL 11, one of the great things we enjoy about each of those games is the fact that they players in each game play true to their ratings. Not only do the great players stand out by their specific abilities, but they also play almost exactly like their real-life counterparts. If Kobe pulls off that signature spin move in the post, then you'll most likely see it in Live 10/2K11. Does Wayne Rooney like to take long shots? You see it in the game.

IMO, these are some of the thing keeping Madden from reaching it's top potential.

Think about it: the ratings, as they stand right now, say how GOOD a player is at a certain skill, but the ratings say absolutely nothing about decision making, and tendencies. This is one of the reasons why weaker QB's in the game can still have 65-75% of passes completed. Player tendency ratings would help to balance the game out, AND the elite players would truly stand out by not only their skills, but their decision-making.

For instance, Madden could introduce tendency ratings for QB's that explain what % of a players passes go to a certain part of the field (middle, short, outside the numbers, backfield), his favorite receiver, his favorite route to throw to, how often a QB audibles, what % of said audibles are passes or runs, how often a QB hot routes, etc.

It could work differently for every position, too. Like, for RB's, the ratings could explain how often the RB uses a quick cut vs. a jump cut, how often he shoulder charges vs, stiff arm, how often he cuts back, what side of the field he likes to run to, etc. For WR's, it could explain a WR's favorite route is, how often he makes body catches vs. hand catches, how often he initiates contact with the DB, how often he freelances his routes (think Randy Moss), etc.

For defensive players, it could explain how often a player uses a finesse move vs. a power move vs. a bull rush, if an LB prefers to blitz, how often a defender freelances, if a safety prefers to play deep vs. shallow (for the LaRon Landry's and Troy Polamalu's of the NFL), if a CB prefers to play press vs. deep, how often LB/SS/FS audibles, and what % of said audibles are run blitzes vs. pass blitzes vs. man coverage vs. zone coverages.

Not only would the virtual players stand out, but so would the coaches. For instance, every coach would have a certain play style, offensive tempo (this would play into how much play clock gets used up), offensive/defensive philosophy, blitz vs. coverage, run vs. pass tendencies, aggressiveness vs. conservativeness, preferred player types (scrambling QB's vs. pocket QB's, quick, soft-handed backs vs. bruisers, possession WR's vs. physical WR's vs. fast WR's, etc.). This would make it so that coaches like Bill Belichick's playcalling is almost always on point, while Mike Singletary's play calls would make ANY coach do post-game conferences with no pants on (take that, Niners!).

If Madden had these things, it would be euphoria. Question is, would they actually be willing to do anything so drawn-out as tendency ratings? It seems that whenever you bring up a possible feature/issue with Madden, they seem to talk around the issue. Now, while that is a perfect trait for a career politician, this does nothing for the games progress.

But anyways, just wanted to present the idea to you guys...
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Old 10-28-2010, 10:24 AM   #2
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Re: Madden Needs Team, Player, & Coach Tendency Ratings

definitely. this is clearly how 2k11 is able to deliver different team and player identities. i just find it kind of odd that other ea titles have adopted this technique while madden hasn't. this franchise has fallen so far behind the other sports franchises out there, that it's almost to the point of being funny.
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Old 10-28-2010, 10:25 AM   #3
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Re: Madden Needs Team, Player, & Coach Tendency Ratings

I was thinking the same thing, it would work great with EB's. Have a Stiff arm , spin, juke tendency.

Same for QB's, have a scramble tendency.
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Old 10-28-2010, 11:10 AM   #4
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Re: Madden Needs Team, Player, & Coach Tendency Ratings

I understand what you are trying to say OP, and it has merits on some levels, but a lot of what you are suggesting, specifically in the area of certain position tendencies, just would not work.

Many of those things that you mentioned HAVE to be governed by the situation, and not what the player "likes" to do.

For instance, the QB. So a QB has a tendency to pass to the left side 70% of the time. Should the AI ignore people open on the right side all game and throw into coverage? Should a scrambling QB leave a well formed pocket because he has a tendency to scramble 53% of the time? Should a RB attempt to stiff arm a DT because he has a tendency to do so 60% of the time, when he could have easily juked him? Receivers don't run patterns that they "like", they run patterns based on the call and the coverage. If there is data that suggests that a receiver runs a particular route much more often than others, that is attributable to his coach's play calling tendencies, along with how opposing coaches have a tendency to play him.

For coaching, I'd say tendencies are great, although their first foray into this area in the form of Game Plan hasn't been too spectacular. I still think this an area that needs tendencies though. Players? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

You can't really go by NBA 2K11 in this case. Basketball is much more freestyle and one on one oriented than Football is. You could do player tendencies very easily here because the offensive player CAN do what ever he wants, and does not HAVE to take what the defense gives him as much as a Football player does. If Kobe is double teamed, he doesn't have to pass out of it. He very well could, and sometimes does, shoot over the top of it, or attempt to split it. If the defender is playing him close, he does not HAVE to drive past him. He could take contested fade away's on every possession if he wanted to, and as long as he hit a good number of them, no one would say boo. Likewise, no matter how far off Rondo you play, he will still attempt to drive by you, and often will successfully, and he does not HAVE to settle for jump shots.

I could go on and on, but the point is that the situation with Basketball tendencies is not perfectly analogous to Football tendencies.

I'm not saying that there isn't a way to get players in Madden, or any other Football game for that matter, to play more like their real life counterparts, I'm just saying that it is a slippery slope and that tendencies are better served being focused on the coaching side, and minimally on the player's side.

The AI needs to make smarter decisions based on the situation and their ratings, awareness ratings in particular. Not necessarily make the exact same percentage of decisions that their real life counterpart makes, without any context.
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Old 10-28-2010, 08:25 PM   #5
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Re: Madden Needs Team, Player, & Coach Tendency Ratings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Only1LT
I understand what you are trying to say OP, and it has merits on some levels, but a lot of what you are suggesting, specifically in the area of certain position tendencies, just would not work.

Many of those things that you mentioned HAVE to be governed by the situation, and not what the player "likes" to do.

For instance, the QB. So a QB has a tendency to pass to the left side 70% of the time. Should the AI ignore people open on the right side all game and throw into coverage? Should a scrambling QB leave a well formed pocket because he has a tendency to scramble 53% of the time? Should a RB attempt to stiff arm a DT because he has a tendency to do so 60% of the time, when he could have easily juked him? Receivers don't run patterns that they "like", they run patterns based on the call and the coverage. If there is data that suggests that a receiver runs a particular route much more often than others, that is attributable to his coach's play calling tendencies, along with how opposing coaches have a tendency to play him.

For coaching, I'd say tendencies are great, although their first foray into this area in the form of Game Plan hasn't been too spectacular. I still think this an area that needs tendencies though. Players? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

You can't really go by NBA 2K11 in this case. Basketball is much more freestyle and one on one oriented than Football is. You could do player tendencies very easily here because the offensive player CAN do what ever he wants, and does not HAVE to take what the defense gives him as much as a Football player does. If Kobe is double teamed, he doesn't have to pass out of it. He very well could, and sometimes does, shoot over the top of it, or attempt to split it. If the defender is playing him close, he does not HAVE to drive past him. He could take contested fade away's on every possession if he wanted to, and as long as he hit a good number of them, no one would say boo. Likewise, no matter how far off Rondo you play, he will still attempt to drive by you, and often will successfully, and he does not HAVE to settle for jump shots.

I could go on and on, but the point is that the situation with Basketball tendencies is not perfectly analogous to Football tendencies.

I'm not saying that there isn't a way to get players in Madden, or any other Football game for that matter, to play more like their real life counterparts, I'm just saying that it is a slippery slope and that tendencies are better served being focused on the coaching side, and minimally on the player's side.

The AI needs to make smarter decisions based on the situation and their ratings, awareness ratings in particular. Not necessarily make the exact same percentage of decisions that their real life counterpart makes, without any context.
That's why it should be a balance. If it were, it WOULD be contextual.

For instance, let's just say that Alex Smith prefers to throw to the right side of the field 60% of the time. But, he has low awareness, and low acc. ratings. So, it would happen in context, as Alex Smith doesn't have the awareness to throw away from coverage, nor does he have the accuracy to fit a ball into tight coverage anyways...
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Old 10-28-2010, 11:12 PM   #6
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Re: Madden Needs Team, Player, & Coach Tendency Ratings

You probably have a point. I was playing the game earlier today and thinking something similar. You should be able to see tendencies as a statistic in order to help you gameplan, but stats and tendencies should also be used to make players play to their ratings and make teams stick to their particular style. At times it can seem ratings don't matter, so there does need to be a way to make player's ratings and their stats match up especially for simmed games. Of course things would change when you change coaches. Speaking of stats. When did EA get rid of weighted/relative stats? i remember there were a few years when stats in their games adjusted based on settings. Like if I set my quarters to 7 minutes, a team getting 320 yards of offense each week shouldn't be almost the last ranked team in he league. I guess tendencies would come into play here as well. But as for tendencies I guess I can see. I guess I can see some not needing them. Maybe they want to try something different from what the team has bee doing
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Old 10-28-2010, 11:19 PM   #7
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Re: Madden Needs Team, Player, & Coach Tendency Ratings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Only1LT
I understand what you are trying to say OP, and it has merits on some levels, but a lot of what you are suggesting, specifically in the area of certain position tendencies, just would not work.

Many of those things that you mentioned HAVE to be governed by the situation, and not what the player "likes" to do.

For instance, the QB. So a QB has a tendency to pass to the left side 70% of the time. Should the AI ignore people open on the right side all game and throw into coverage? Should a scrambling QB leave a well formed pocket because he has a tendency to scramble 53% of the time? Should a RB attempt to stiff arm a DT because he has a tendency to do so 60% of the time, when he could have easily juked him? Receivers don't run patterns that they "like", they run patterns based on the call and the coverage. If there is data that suggests that a receiver runs a particular route much more often than others, that is attributable to his coach's play calling tendencies, along with how opposing coaches have a tendency to play him.

For coaching, I'd say tendencies are great, although their first foray into this area in the form of Game Plan hasn't been too spectacular. I still think this an area that needs tendencies though. Players? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

You can't really go by NBA 2K11 in this case. Basketball is much more freestyle and one on one oriented than Football is. You could do player tendencies very easily here because the offensive player CAN do what ever he wants, and does not HAVE to take what the defense gives him as much as a Football player does. If Kobe is double teamed, he doesn't have to pass out of it. He very well could, and sometimes does, shoot over the top of it, or attempt to split it. If the defender is playing him close, he does not HAVE to drive past him. He could take contested fade away's on every possession if he wanted to, and as long as he hit a good number of them, no one would say boo. Likewise, no matter how far off Rondo you play, he will still attempt to drive by you, and often will successfully, and he does not HAVE to settle for jump shots.

I could go on and on, but the point is that the situation with Basketball tendencies is not perfectly analogous to Football tendencies.

I'm not saying that there isn't a way to get players in Madden, or any other Football game for that matter, to play more like their real life counterparts, I'm just saying that it is a slippery slope and that tendencies are better served being focused on the coaching side, and minimally on the player's side.

The AI needs to make smarter decisions based on the situation and their ratings, awareness ratings in particular. Not necessarily make the exact same percentage of decisions that their real life counterpart makes, without any context.
Yeah that's why EA just had to be careful about which ones it uses and also not give it absolute weight. It would just be part of the equation

Last edited by Sonic98; 10-29-2010 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 10-29-2010, 12:11 AM   #8
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Re: Madden Needs Team, Player, & Coach Tendency Ratings

And they need to be available for customization outside of franchise mode. Esp Team and Coach Tendencies.
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