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Why the sim gamer will make EA more money than "tourney or casual" gamer

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Old 11-19-2010, 07:45 AM   #17
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Re: Why the sim gamer will make EA more money than "tourney or casual" gamer

sim, causal and abuser are play styles...... they need to make a better FOOTBALL game......

most people say the show is sim baseball yet my cousin can make it look like THE BIGS 2

PEOPLE are leaving madden because they had 5 yrs to see its reached its peak this gen.

if they rebuild it or really change it, it will sell again.......

as it stands the game leaves many people wanting, some want to be offensive and defensive co-ordinators yet no create plays.....some want to be GM's and have bad FA... some wants to be owners, limited create team abilities.

the game is aging and limited, when its new again it will sell... football sells
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Old 11-19-2010, 10:16 AM   #18
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Re: Why the sim gamer will make EA more money than "tourney or casual" gamer

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Originally Posted by carnalnirvana
PEOPLE are leaving madden because they had 5 yrs to see its reached its peak this gen.

if they rebuild it or really change it, it will sell again.......
Hmmmm. Not only do I believe Madden has reached its peak with this "engine", I think this peak is not much higher than last gen's. The only major difference I see are graphics. The AI, animations & "strategy" needed to do well are pretty similar.

Saying that, maybe EA doesn't have much choice but to aim at new customers. Vets are either OK playing the same game or they're not. Those that are not probably won't be excited about Madden until it's rebuilt... for real this time.
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Old 11-19-2010, 11:38 AM   #19
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Re: Why the sim gamer will make EA more money than "tourney or casual" gamer

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Originally Posted by BezO
Hmmmm. Not only do I believe Madden has reached its peak with this "engine", I think this peak is not much higher than last gen's. The only major difference I see are graphics. The AI, animations & "strategy" needed to do well are pretty similar.

Saying that, maybe EA doesn't have much choice but to aim at new customers. Vets are either OK playing the same game or they're not. Those that are not probably won't be excited about Madden until it's rebuilt... for real this time.
The funny thing is Madden on PS2 looks more fluid and plays more realistic than Madden on the next gen consoles. Why is that? Madden Devs say they cant make a new engine until the next gen consoles, that's bull$hit. There isnt even any confirmation of new consoles coming out. Microsoft just released kinect and a new style xbox, they arent going to make a new xbox anytime soon.

Its a poor excuse to say that the devs have taken this engine to its max potential or are unable to change it. If the EA heads give them a green light to change the engine then we'll have a new engine. Why the hell are they still producing a game on an flawed engine if they know its flawed? They know its broken and THEY DONT FIX IT. I literally put Madden down one month after buying it.

Look at NBA Elite. They scrapped it and sent it to Tiburon. Now Elite is probably going to get a new engine. EA and their devs keep giving us these excuses and arent implementing any of our suggestions. Look how 2ksports implemented our suggestions into NBA 2k11. Why cant EA do the same? Why are we always complaining about THE SAME ISSUES every Madden? I hate how EA puts all this useless crap in the game and says its improved. Every Madden on next gen has been like that. They keep putting a new dress on the same pig and selling to us as a woman. EA no longer produces the quality they were known for. Just look at the new Medal of Honor as an example.
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Old 11-19-2010, 12:07 PM   #20
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Re: Why the sim gamer will make EA more money than "tourney or casual" gamer

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Originally Posted by ryan36
In an acronym DLC. Peter Moore once said he wants the game to stay in people's consoles longer, in order to sell them more DLC.

The tourney/casual guys may buy power ups or whatever...but I think that if EA makes the gameplay sim and varied, people will want to keep playing it longer. With different years, classic teams, new stadiums for 1.99 etc.

Right now, the DLC is just lipstick on the pig. If they make Madden an awesome game, I bet more and more sim gamers would love to stick with this and wouldn't mind paying a buck or two for enhancements.

I can't think of one person who objects to supporting a quality game.
I'm one of the few Madden players around that will stand up for Madden... It's not lipstick on a pig. Far from it. Madden is a quality game and has been for decades... ever version since the series hit consoles I have enjoyed the title (except for the yuck years of '96, '06, '07, and '08).

It's cool for people who are football fans to not like the game... But not liking something doesn't mean it lacks quality. It merely means this game is not for you for whatever reason:

1) Some don't have time to become intimately familiar with Madden. Kids, work, church, and family all pull on people. I get this. I'm a 20 year veteran of the series and there's still a learning curve for every new version.

2) Some simple don't have a football mentality. They don't get up when they get knocked down. They are more apt to run when danger comes, and cry when someone they care about yells at them than stand up and get the job done. These guys couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag because they simply lack competitiveness. It shows in every competitive arena that they don't have what it takes to truly enjoy anything competitive; especially Madden.

3) Some don't have patience to deal with player antics. Part of the beuaty of Madden is the depth of the game and the options available. It's also part of the ugliness. With so many options available, many players will opt for the most hated ones.

4) Some play game modes that don't get much attention... Franchise and Superstar are the two modes I rarely touch. If they disappeared, I wouldn't notice, but thousands of people would. They also get upset when their chosen mode isn't a candidate for improvements.

5) Some don't like Madden and never have. The exclusive deal that ran competitors away from the genre did little more than infuriate fans of other games that would no longer be produced. They take their anger out on whatever Madden game is out and the staff that produces it.

I'm sure there are countless other reasons to hate Madden. To me there is no difference between SIM, and Tourney players other than their level of dedication. Casual players on the other hand are where the money lies.

Casual players spend full price on the game, then play it for 3 weeks before moving on to the next. They don't need patches, roster updates, or support because they aren't playing long enough to care. It's cheaper to service these players...

SIM and Tourney players are likely to still be playing in March. They put in time to improve and understand the benefits of practice. They know that Madden is more than just a game to people who play it...

EA makes more $$$ on casual players when spreading the purchase price over the length of use. Whereas, my $60 will carry me an entire year.

That being said. I don't buy DLC (except scouting reports). IMO, that's for people with too much time to focus on what's really important in Madden.

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Old 11-19-2010, 12:23 PM   #21
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Re: Why the sim gamer will make EA more money than "tourney or casual" gamer

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Originally Posted by TNT713
I'm one of the few Madden players around that will stand up for Madden... It's not lipstick on a pig. Far from it. Madden is a quality game and has been for decades... ever version since the series hit consoles I have enjoyed the title (except for the yuck years of '96, '06, '07, and '08).

It's cool for people who are football fans to not like the game... But not liking something doesn't mean it lacks quality. It merely means this game is not for you for whatever reason:

1) Some don't have time to become intimately familiar with Madden. Kids, work, church, and family all pull on people. I get this. I'm a 20 year veteran of the series and there's still a learning curve for every new version.

2) Some simple don't have a football mentality. They don't get up when they get knocked down. They are more apt to run when danger comes, and cry when someone they care about yells at them than stand up and get the job done. These guys couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag because they simply lack competitiveness. It shows in every competitive arena that they don't have what it takes to truly enjoy anything competitive; especially Madden.

3) Some don't have patience to deal with player antics. Part of the beuaty of Madden is the depth of the game and the options available. It's also part of the ugliness. With so many options available, many players will opt for the most hated ones.

4) Some play game modes that don't get much attention... Franchise and Superstar are the two modes I rarely touch. If they disappeared, I wouldn't notice, but thousands of people would. They also get upset when their chosen mode isn't a candidate for improvements.

5) Some don't like Madden and never have. The exclusive deal that ran competitors away from the genre did little more than infuriate fans of other games that would no longer be produced. They take their anger out on whatever Madden game is out and the staff that produces it.

I'm sure there are countless other reasons to hate Madden. To me there is no difference between SIM, and Tourney players other than their level of dedication. Casual players on the other hand are where the money lies.

Casual players spend full price on the game, then play it for 3 weeks before moving on to the next. They don't need patches, roster updates, or support because they aren't playing long enough to care. It's cheaper to service these players...

SIM and Tourney players are likely to still be playing in March. They put in time to improve and understand the benefits of practice. They know that Madden is more than just a game to people who play it...

EA makes more $$$ on casual players when spreading the purchase price over the length of use. Whereas, my $60 will carry me an entire year.

That being said. I don't buy DLC (except scouting reports). IMO, that's for people with too much time to focus on what's really important in Madden.

Later
Ive been playing Madden since the Nintendo days. I think sim gamer is just used wrong in this thread. A sim game merely means that it is a realistic representation of the real thing. So Madden should be a realistic representation of the NFL, which it is not.

My main gripe about Madden is the refusal or inability for EA to fix the glaring gameplay issues that have plagued this game for multiple years now. EA's sports motto is "It's in the game." Which means that if its in the real NFL its suppose to be in Madden too. If NFL Street and a simulation footnall game had a baby, Madden would be it. Too many unrealistic things happen in this game, when EA promises us realism. If they told me Madden was going to be NBA Jam then I would accept it. But every year they tell me they are selling me a Mercedes, when they are really just selling me a Kia with Mercedes logo glued to it.
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Old 11-19-2010, 12:43 PM   #22
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Re: Why the sim gamer will make EA more money than "tourney or casual" gamer

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNT713
I'm one of the few Madden players around that will stand up for Madden... It's not lipstick on a pig. Far from it. Madden is a quality game and has been for decades... ever version since the series hit consoles I have enjoyed the title (except for the yuck years of '96, '06, '07, and '08).

It's cool for people who are football fans to not like the game... But not liking something doesn't mean it lacks quality. It merely means this game is not for you for whatever reason:

3) Some don't have patience to deal with player antics. Part of the beuaty of Madden is the depth of the game and the options available. It's also part of the ugliness. With so many options available, many players will opt for the most hated ones.
I, for one, totally get your POV. I always try to focus on the things that the game does well, as opposed to the opposite POV. But I think you're missing the mark with this one.

You talk about the depth of the game and the options, well this is where I think you are overlooking some things. Just look at the defense. Last gen, we had the option to individually press receivers, instead of having all three corners press at once. We also had the option to shade receivers. That's a pretty big option that would infinitely increase the strategy and depth of calling defense beyond the simple system that we have now. Not to mention formation subs, custom packages and playbooks that have been missing for 3 years.

Secondly, take a look at my sig, then take a minute to scan through this thread at the bottom when you get a chance. This is what EA thinks of depth. They completely neutered the playbooks. Their aim going into this year with gameflow and such was to get people to call more than a dozen of the same plays a game. Ironically, with the chopped up playbooks, I find myself going to the same plays, especially running plays, more than ever. And I've noticed the CPU doing it more than ever too. I used to take pride using all 300+ plays in my arsenal.

I think the frustration with most around here is that we see how much better the game could be, because it actually was not so long ago.

http://http://www.operationsports.co...dden-10-a.html
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Old 11-19-2010, 03:20 PM   #23
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Re: Why the sim gamer will make EA more money than "tourney or casual" gamer

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Originally Posted by Senator Palmer
You talk about the depth of the game and the options, well this is where I think you are overlooking some things. Just look at the defense. Last gen, we had the option to individually press receivers, instead of having all three corners press at once. We also had the option to shade receivers. That's a pretty big option that would infinitely increase the strategy and depth of calling defense beyond the simple system that we have now. Not to mention formation subs, custom packages and playbooks that have been missing for 3 years.

Secondly, take a look at my sig, then take a minute to scan through this thread at the bottom when you get a chance. This is what EA thinks of depth. They completely neutered the playbooks. Their aim going into this year with gameflow and such was to get people to call more than a dozen of the same plays a game. Ironically, with the chopped up playbooks, I find myself going to the same plays, especially running plays, more than ever. And I've noticed the CPU doing it more than ever too. I used to take pride using all 300+ plays in my arsenal.

I think the frustration with most around here is that we see how much better the game could be, because it actually was not so long ago.

http://http://www.operationsports.co...dden-10-a.html
I agree with your assessment... This game could be better than it is, but better to one is not better to another.

Earlier this year when it was announced that Franchise mode got little attention, I didn't care. To me, Madden is king because of the head-to-head competition. IMO, anything that doesn't enhance that aspect of the game is a waste of time.

I'd pull Franchise and Superstar as useless features. Of course, millions of copies would go unsold because some people actually play Madden for those modes. That's why I don't work for EA. LOL

That being said, we have to come to a consensus as a community about features we consider a #1 priority. As part of the community, I have little confidence in our ability to do so. The figurative squeaky wheel gets the oil, (ex. Hand Towels that no player uses to dry their hands).

Here's what I want that would make Madden better:

1) Madden Challenge: With a game as competitive as Madden, EA has a vested interest in finding out who's best.

2) Play Editor that works ONLINE: Game Flow is great, but If I'm stuck with 300 plays and I'm not using 250 of them, perhaps the thinking should be giving us the ability to put our own playbook's together. I'm tired of sacrificing my scheme's diversity because I can't create my own playbooks. And to all the guys that say "that opens online to glitches" I'd say, it opens online to coaching and most aren't up to the task. Not that I care about anyone's opinion unless they are still playing Madden in April. LOL :P

3) New Play Call Interface: I want to be able to use any coverage in my defensive playbook from any defensive formation in my playbook. Instead of having 8 versions of Cover 3 and calling it 8 plays. I'd rather call a formation, then my coverage. There are some nice Dime coverages I'd like to use from the 4-3 as a base, but there is no equivalent among the available plays.

4) Shading: Defensive players rely on positioning to cover. I'd like control over whether my DB's jump inside or outside with more flexibility than the standard Bump-N-Run setting... Right now, manually moving players changes how they cover, but it takes too long and is far too obvious.

All in all, I want this game to be the best it can be... But too many non-Madden guys chime in. Not that their opinions aren't valuable, they are, but if a player is only going to play Madden for a week or two, how valuable can their input be?

I'd rather listen to the year-round Madden guys... They obviously care more than the casual fan.

Later
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Old 11-19-2010, 05:31 PM   #24
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Re: Why the sim gamer will make EA more money than "tourney or casual" gamer

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNT713
I'm one of the few Madden players around that will stand up for Madden... It's not lipstick on a pig. Far from it. Madden is a quality game and has been for decades... ever version since the series hit consoles I have enjoyed the title (except for the yuck years of '96, '06, '07, and '08).

It's cool for people who are football fans to not like the game... But not liking something doesn't mean it lacks quality. It merely means this game is not for you for whatever reason:
One man's quality is the next man's inferiority. In the case of a simulation, to me, quality would be a great representation of the NFL. That it is not. But I'm OK with us disagreeing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNT713
1) Some don't have time to become intimately familiar with Madden. Kids, work, church, and family all pull on people. I get this. I'm a 20 year veteran of the series and there's still a learning curve for every new version.

2) Some simple don't have a football mentality. They don't get up when they get knocked down. They are more apt to run when danger comes, and cry when someone they care about yells at them than stand up and get the job done. These guys couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag because they simply lack competitiveness. It shows in every competitive arena that they don't have what it takes to truly enjoy anything competitive; especially Madden.

3) Some don't have patience to deal with player antics. Part of the beuaty of Madden is the depth of the game and the options available. It's also part of the ugliness. With so many options available, many players will opt for the most hated ones.
We have almost the complete opposite view. It sounds like you think Madden is this great sim that some don't have the time or capacity to learn. I feel like I have all this football knowledge and can't use any of it while playing madden.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNT713
4) Some play game modes that don't get much attention... Franchise and Superstar are the two modes I rarely touch. If they disappeared, I wouldn't notice, but thousands of people would. They also get upset when their chosen mode isn't a candidate for improvements.
I'm a franchise guy, but I don't want them touching it until the gameplay is up to par with other sports games. Franchise mode is useless to me until then. Some haven't played franchise games because the mode is stale. I haven't played because the game doesn't have enough football in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNT713
5) Some don't like Madden and never have. The exclusive deal that ran competitors away from the genre did little more than infuriate fans of other games that would no longer be produced. They take their anger out on whatever Madden game is out and the staff that produces it.
LOL. I'm sure this is true for a few younger gamers. However, anyone in my age range or older probably played Madden before 2K football was even a thought in someone's mind.

But even those that hate Madden, they don't hate it simply because their favorite game is gone. They hate it because their favorite game is gone and Madden doesn't compare well. In other words, they simply don't like Madden.

But this reverse psychology hate thing is hilarious. It seems like if you don't like what the masses like, you're a *****. Why is it that folks just can't dislike something because it sucks?
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