What happened to Fair Play Rules?

[SouthernBrick]

Quote: Originally Posted by kehlis

No way. Three per drive is way too much. You mentioned you hadn't played with it before. It pretty much handled fourth down decisions. It would force you to punt or kick pretty much anytime it was fourth down until the end of the halves. Allowing that to happen 3 times per drive would leave us in the same situation that you and I are trying to avoid now. It had no bearing on playcall on any other down then fourth. I think 3 times a game is very fair(maybe too fair) because rarely are their situations where you would need to go for it on fourth in an uncommon situation throughout a game.

When I play defense I get some pretty long drives sometimes. Usually those guys who go for on 4th down all the time usually wind up doing it at least 5-6 times because, I don't give up a lot of big plays consistently. Now that I think about it 3 would probably be to much because, when actually I think about the situations it could get pretty bad with that many.

Like said earlier, a set number of overrides per game would probably be best or at least that is the best method I've read. At the end of the day I'd just like to play a random person knowing that is back of my mind that there is a high chance they're going to play sim.

[KBLover]

Fair play doesn't equal the accountability a coach of a real NFL team has. It doesn't make you accountable for your online play. A loss in Madden will just be 'shrugged off' either way. Nor does it really stop unrealistic play. The seeds of that go deeper than an arbitrary set of rules that do not at all exist in the NFL. Goodell is not (yet) going to forbid a coach from going for it on 4th deep in their own territory. That's pretty much what Fair Play did.

I mean, I could call nothing but end-arounds all game. Or nothing but screens. Or nothing but QB runs because I have Vick, etc. None of that is covered by Fair Play. All of them would be unrealistic.

Now, if you could get temp. banned from online play because your record is bad, then that would be closer to simulating it. You could get "fired" from playing online for a while until you get "hired" again and you're reset to a 0-0 record. That might would make people think before trying totally wacked out stuff like going for it on 4th from your own 10.

And what if I'm down by 17 with 9 minutes left in the 4th and I'm on the edge of FG range, but I need to get back into the game? Why should I NOT be allowed to go for it? Or I had a horrible first half and down by 24 with 5 minutes in the 3rd? Why should *EA* decide how and when I can go into desperation mode to try to turn momentum? Because it's not in the fitting of a definition of sim? Because it's not the final 2 minutes?

I mean no team has ever gone for it on 4th down except at the end of the halves, right? We never see that on Sundays?

Coaches make bad decisions all the time. Part of that is because they think they have to take risks when they don't, but that's part of the game. Real coaches have bad clock management sometimes, or should EA dictate when we use our timeouts? Sometimes they DON'T take risks when they probably should. Should EA present only pass plays on 3rd and 20 because running "wouldn't make sense"? Online games aren't ever going to have the accountability enforced in them as if you were one of the 32 souls on this planet to be HC of a NFL team.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by SouthernBrick

Yes, it is their decision but, its not "sim" and that is what I truly hate about it. It isn't what you see on Sundays, Mondays, or even Thursdays.

Nor is having, basically, the commissioner/officials forbidding a team from calling certain plays either. I've never seen the officials tell a team they can't go for it yet on 4th down. Don't see it in the NFL rules either.

Imo, Fair play is no more "sim" than going for it on 4th and 10 from your 20 on the first drive of the game.

Being forbidden to call a certain play at a certain time is not a "simulation" of the NFL, imo.

[Phixius]

Coaches don't punt all the time. Let's play this scenario. Suppose I'm leading by a TD with less than 2:00 and I have possession at the 50. I fail to convert a first down. It's 4th down at the 2. I'm not giving the opponent back the ball.

NFL coaches can do whatever they want. They aren't forced to punt the ball on 4th down. Most NFL coaches do so because punting is often the logical decision.......but not everyone who plays Madden thinks like it. If they want to go for it, then let them. It's the user job to stop them. I've seen teams convert 4th down many times and I've seen them failed. That's football.

Why shouldn't I have that option to do that? Because someone can't stop it? It's not what they see every Sunday? The opponent isn't playing the way another want them to?


The opponent quitting after a failed 4th down conversion is no different than them quitting when they're down by 20 points. Blame EA for going easy on quitters.


Point is, if a player is confident enough to go for it on 4th down, they should have that option to do so. There is no certain way how to deal with 4th down. Players can do what they want. They have the same chance of converting as I do stopping them.

[splff3000]

Quote: Originally Posted by TreFacTor

Look for it to make a return soon, there has been a lot of clamoring about it. I would expect to see something along the lines of a fairplay lobby...look for that god awful vision cone to return also... {UGH}. People claim to want change, when in actuality they just want a retro remake. I just hope they don't tout them a "new" features.

Umm, I'm just curious but how do you figure that the vision cone is returning? I must've missed that announcement.

On Topic.....

There shouldn't be a need for debate with this. There should be a fairplay lobby for those that want it. Some like for their games to play a little more realistic and would give up their freedom to make that happen and others like a little more freedom. The simple solution is a fairplay lobby. In fact, I'd like to see more levels for the lobbies. Once inside the East/West lobbies that are currently available, I'd like to see a lobby for each difficulty(rookie, pro, etc), then a lobby for fairplay(on or off). That way once you enter these lobbies, you kinda know what kind of game you're gonna get ie in the East/All Madden/fairplay lobby you're gonna get a more restrictive game on the All Madden difficulty. I don't care how they do it, but there definitely needs to be someway for people to play ranked games on different difficulties and for some way for people that want fairplay to be able to play with it. I played only a few games in Madden 10(didn't buy 11) before I decided not to go online again. It's not that I was losing. I actually had a really good record. It's just that almost half of the games didn't have a realistic flo to them and like Kehlis, I played and expected the realistic flow of an NFL game. To people like me and Kehlis, you just can't get that with fairplay off. I will concede that it needs to be lightened up, but if 11 is anything like 10( and from what I've read it sounds worse) anything would be better than what we have now.

[phant030]

They may not need a return. But, they need some type of 4th down awareness (or boosts) to make them less likely to be successful....just a bit harder to make that throw in good coverage, a bit harder to get that hole especially on 4th and long....the only reason ppl do it is b/c they can get away with it. Turn the odds in favor of the defense...over time it will balance out IMO.

I saw they were talking about Grenade lauchers being toned down in Black Ops, so ppl that were using them in MW2 w/ ease have stopped mostly (at least from what i read near it releasing).

I understand it's not an enjoyable experience, but you shouldn't really 'force' players into it....l just think if it's skewed towards a defensive advantage it will take care of itself.

Add that with some quick tips in team selection...like Pass/Run Ratio, Goes for it on 4th down%...we may not have to deal with them in the first place.

[Phixius]

Quote: Originally Posted by phant030

They may not need a return. But, they need some type of 4th down awareness (or boosts) to make them less likely to be successful....just a bit harder to make that throw in good coverage, a bit harder to get that hole especially on 4th and long....the only reason ppl do it is b/c they can get away with it. Turn the odds in favor of the defense...over time it will balance out IMO.

The game is limited as is. Why continue down that path? It's hard enough to make throws in good coverage due to not enough animation to deal with it. What you want? A defender to slide across the field to knock a pass down? or to spin in mid air with no contact to intercept a pass?

[Johnny "Too Tall"]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phixius

Coaches don't punt all the time. Let's play this scenario. Suppose I'm leading by a TD with less than 2:00 and I have possession at the 50. I fail to convert a first down. It's 4th down at the 2. I'm not giving the opponent back the ball. NFL coaches can do whatever they want. They aren't forced to punt the ball on 4th down. Most NFL coaches do so because punting is often the logical decision.......but not everyone who plays Madden thinks like it. If they want to go for it, then let them. It's the user job to stop them. I've seen teams convert 4th down many times and I've seen them failed. That's football. Why shouldn't I have that option to do that? Because someone can't stop it? It's not what they see every Sunday? The opponent isn't playing the way another want them to? The opponent quitting after a failed 4th down conversion is no different than them quitting when they're down by 20 points. Blame EA for going easy on quitters. Point is, if a player is confident enough to go for it on 4th down, they should have that option to do so. There is no certain way how to deal with 4th down. Players can do what they want. They have the same chance of converting as I do stopping them.

''Coaches don't punt all the time. Let's play this scenario. Suppose I'm leading by a TD with less than 2:00 and I have possession at the 50. I fail to convert a first down. It's 4th down at the 2.''

You seriously think this is where the problem is with going for it on 4th down? Obviously there are situations where it makes sense. That's far off from going for it on your own 20 yd line on 4th and 8 in the first quarter.

''Point is, if a player is confident enough to go for it on 4th down, they should have that option to do so.''

Confidence comes easy when you could care less because its just a video game, and there are simple money plays in madden. The defensive AI in this game is a joke for the most parts that why people go for it on 4th. Not because their good.

I could care less if you want to go for it on 4th down everytime, I would simply be happy with a lobby that allows for fair plays rules and restricts the ability to go for it on 4th in certain situations. It would probably offer a better chance of getting matched up with someone who plays "sim''.