Should Potential Fluctuate?

[splff3000]

Quote: Originally Posted by albert_24

While I agree that a player has a set potential however this should only account for physical stats. Things like awareness and the more mental attributes should be able to max out. Even if a qb doesn't have the greatest arm he could in all honesty be the smartest. A player isn't dumb his whole career. At least most aren't and. Even if a player lacks talent doesn't mean he lacks brains. I think a player like doug flutie who didn't have great tangibles but he did have a lot of good intangibles.

Non-physical stats have a ceiling too. If god gave you the mental capacity to be nothing more than a B student, then no matter how much you study, you'll never be an A student. In your example, yes QB's can become more aware if there mental capacity allows it. Just like with physical traits, your mental traits have a cap as well. I do agree that these should a have higher ceiling most of the time than the physical traits, but there still should be a ceiling.

Quote: Originally Posted by tlc12576

I think I understand what you are saying about the current potential rating and what it represents. Spliff, I will ask you since you spoke with the devs. For example, if I draft a CB with an OVR of 80, can he have D potential and a QB with an OVR of 55 have A potential? If not, the system is not implemented properly, IMO. Granted, I didn't buy Madden 11 but I dont recall Madden 10 having players with high OVR but low potential, maybe it did. If the system does have these type situations and works properly, I think it should probably be renamed Improvement. To the OP's question, I think it should fluctuate and be shown for all players. Charles Woodson should be rated high OVR but have a F in improvement/Potential because he's not getting any better. This would help gamers and the AI make more realistic trade and waiver decisions during a franchise. It could still be displayed but would make more sense to more gamers, IMO. In the real NFL, it's no secret when any player has more polish but less upside growth. The trick is, do you have the patience and/or ability, to see this player improve or would you rather go with a solid player with less upside. If this is how the system works, I can see why they chose to call it Potential but that makes alot of gamers think it represents how good a player will be in the NFL, not how much room for improvement the player has. This is yet another example of poor communication by a company to its' consumers. If this is the way Potential works, it is a great idea, IMO, but poorly explained. There should have been a Madden 10 blog about this and an in-depth explanation in the games manual. I know alot of you don't remember the tv show "The Greatest American Hero" but that's what next-gen Madden makes me think of. In the show, this guy is given a suit by aliens, which gives him superpowers when wearing it. There is an instruction booklet for how to use the suit properly but he lost it. So he spends every episode using trial and error trying to use the suit. Just like gamers have to spend every year figuring out how things work in next-gen Madden.

I never spoke to the devs. This was all brought to light in a thread one of the devs created before Madden 10. I can't remember if it was a thread to discuss franchise or if the thread was created specifically for discussing potential, but there was a big discussion about it. That is how the devs explained that potential worked. I haven't played Madden 11 either, but I'm pretty sure there were no scenarios of high OVR and low potential on 10. I went through 7 or 8 seasons in franchise and don't recall ever seeing that. I know a lot of people get upset about the fact that potential can't change, but if you knew how it really works you would understand why it doesn't.

[debauchlord]

potential is more important for the AI so it has a number it can point to in order to figure out who to cut, who to sign, without having a million variables. The AI does not use potential in drafting a player, rather they use a need vs. draft position base. That is why there are horrible roster requirements (so the AI knows which positions they need to draft for). Again, that is for the AI to create their own decent rosters, not draft too bad, and not be swindled by a human player. It is unfortunate until they develop a better system. A stat based overall is just as poor as a potential one.

[tlc12576]

Quote: Originally Posted by splff3000

I never spoke to the devs. This was all brought to light in a thread one of the devs created before Madden 10. I can't remember if it was a thread to discuss franchise or if the thread was created specifically for discussing potential, but there was a big discussion about it. That is how the devs explained that potential worked. I haven't played Madden 11 either, but I'm pretty sure there were no scenarios of high OVR and low potential on 10. I went through 7 or 8 seasons in franchise and don't recall ever seeing that. I know a lot of people get upset about the fact that potential can't change, but if you knew how it really works you would understand why it doesn't.

Ok,my bad on thinking you talked directly to the devs but clarify the bolded part for me. So Potential is supposed to allow for high OVR and low potential or not?

If it was supposed to for that type scenario, I get it and think it is a good idea that just needs some adjusting to work properly. If it was not meant to allow this, I don't get what they meant for it to represent.

[whoRweNATION]

Dynamic Potential is a good idea and all but...I'd rather see potential be removed from the game and instead bring back the old progression system.

[Radja]

the problem in real life is desire and intelligence are also tied to potential. jamarcus russel did not want to be an nfl qb. he wanted a paycheck. he got that and he was done. a lot of busts fail for that very reason.

peyton hillis and players like him, did not get the paycheck or had the desire to be great.

other busts though are busts because the scouts did a poor job in evaluation.

the difficulty for a developer would be to design a system that combined potential with desire and intelligence. they have attributes already in the system like awareness and leadership so it could possibly be done.

[splff3000]

Quote: Originally Posted by tlc12576

Ok,my bad on thinking you talked directly to the devs but clarify the bolded part for me. So Potential is supposed to allow for high OVR and low potential or not? If it was supposed to for that type scenario, I get it and think it is a good idea that just needs some adjusting to work properly. If it was not meant to allow this, I don't get what they meant for it to represent.

It is meant to represent the highest rating that a player can get. To use your Charles Woodson example: Woodson would have a potential of A because the highest is OVR can be is in the 90's. He wouldn't have a potential of F. That would mean the highest his OVR could ever be is somewhere in the 50's. The rest of the scenario would play out much like you said though as he wouldn't be progressing much, if at all, because he is already at his potential of A. Now if he had an OVR of 79 or something, he could progress a lot until he got into the 90's because of his A potential.

Quote: Originally Posted by whoRweNATION

Dynamic Potential is a good idea and all but...I'd rather see potential be removed from the game and instead bring back the old progression system.

Potential is not a dynamic thing though. Your potential never changes in real life. If a player comes out and works hard and practices hard, if he has the god given ability, he will become a star. If he comes out and is lazy and doesn't work, he still has the ability to become a star, he just won't get there. On the flip side, if a player comes out and works hard and practices hard, but DOESN"T have the god given ability, he still will not be a star. He may be a starter or role player or whatever but he will never be a star because his abilities won't allow him to be. That is what potential is supposed to represent. Also potential has always been in these games. It's just never been shown. There has always been some kind of cap on player progression. No matter how good you are, you could never just take anyone and make them a 99 ovr player on the game. Yes there were some players that could reach 99 OVR, but most got capped somewhere before they reached 99. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I don't see what's so hard to understand about what potential is. It's pretty much a cap on a player's progression. It's there to represent the god given limit on a player's ability. Maybe I'm missing something here.

[GlennN]

Quote: Originally Posted by splff3000

It is meant to represent the highest rating that a player can get. To use your Charles Woodson example: Woodson would have a potential of A because the highest is OVR can be is in the 90's. He wouldn't have a potential of F. That would mean the highest his OVR could ever be is somewhere in the 50's. The rest of the scenario would play out much like you said though as he wouldn't be progressing much, if at all, because he is already at his potential of A. Now if he had an OVR of 79 or something, he could progress a lot until he got into the 90's because of his A potential. Potential is not a dynamic thing though. Your potential never changes in real life. If a player comes out and works hard and practices hard, if he has the god given ability, he will become a star. If he comes out and is lazy and doesn't work, he still has the ability to become a star, he just won't get there. On the flip side, if a player comes out and works hard and practices hard, but DOESN"T have the god given ability, he still will not be a star. He may be a starter or role player or whatever but he will never be a star because his abilities won't allow him to be. That is what potential is supposed to represent. Also potential has always been in these games. It's just never been shown. There has always been some kind of cap on player progression. No matter how good you are, you could never just take anyone and make them a 99 ovr player on the game. Yes there were some players that could reach 99 OVR, but most got capped somewhere before they reached 99. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I don't see what's so hard to understand about what potential is. It's pretty much a cap on a player's progression. It's there to represent the god given limit on a player's ability. Maybe I'm missing something here.

Ok, but then not every player should reach his potential. I am fine with what you're saying, but it seems like the game progresses players according to the grade. I get you - this guy will never be higher than an 80. The system then should be that the player may never get higher than a 60, or may get to an 80, depending on the system he plays in, his stats, and a random element. I'm with you, but I don't think we are saying different things. Potential grade should not determine the final rating of a player for certain. That is all I am saying. I don't like to see automatic progression until a player reaches his potential - some players just never will.

[Frankie3718]

Why not give players a potential rating based on height, weight, strength, speed, arm strength (for QB's), etc. This would be the potential rating you are able to see. From here they should have a hidden rating for each player making some of players reach their potential, some exceed their potential and some never reach their potential. This could be completely random. I think this would make it much more realistic.