Current Madden ratings mean nothing

[PGaither84]

[mavfan21]

I'm using Mikeownz sliders on All-pro and I definitely saw a big difference when (in Franchise Mode) I knocked out McNabb and faced the back-up. I see it in the way my own players play as well, especially the HB's and QB's.

Where I don't see a big difference is in the OL/DL. I never get the feel that one guy is stronger/quicker or a better finesse/bull rusher than another.

[ryan36]

Nice Gaither...I just hate how the OL backs up at the snap instead of going to meet there blocks- that has nothing to do with ratings though

Yeah, the skill positions matter, ol/dl is still bad in this game

[PGaither84]

Quote: Originally Posted by ryan36

Nice Gaither...I just hate how the OL backs up at the snap instead of going to meet there blocks- that has nothing to do with ratings though Yeah, the skill positions matter, ol/dl is still bad in this game

Thank you.

Although I am confused as to what people want. in Last gen adn prior to Madden 10, we complained that offensive linemen made a straight line brick wall on passing plays, like they were running plays, and unless I misread you, you just "complained" that they instead attempted to form something that resembles a pocket?

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Something my best friend said to me the other day is very true. Madden si like watching animated action figures try to play football. That it feels like bags of ratings bumping into each other rather than an organic experience. compared to 2k5 and more so with 2k8 where each and every player looks and feels like he is interacting with the game world around him. Neither game is perfect, but Madden feels like it is still stuck in the PS1/N64 days of 3D polygonal football. Sure, it looks really pretty, but it plays and feels dated.

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Finally, I would make the point that defensive line play/ratings matter less for the user than it does for the computer because of how the computer plays QB. You "cannot" get quick pressure on the computer controlled QB. It gets rid of the ball if the pressure comes quickly. It isn't until it has finished it's drop that I notice it is willing to "take a sack." [and I use that term liberally] you don't really have those play like in real life where a blind side defender just beats his man, collapses the pocket and drops the unsuspecting QB in a hurry. Instead, Alex Smith plays like he were Kurt Warner and does his best to throw to a hot read, even if it ends up incomplete or the pressure forces a wobbly pass.

In user vs. user games, with custom sliders against friends, we have gotten these kinds of plays to work because the user controlled QB is busy reading the defense at the snap of the ball rather than if an offensive linemen lost his initial block. Sure, if you can read the blitz correctly and get the ball out, that is different, but when a talented DE/DT gets through quickly, that is another story. it becomes quite obvious to me that Madden was built to be a player versus player offline game first and foremost.

[LiquorLogic]

Quote: Originally Posted by guaps

So you're gonna show us that linemen with poor blocking skills are being overrun by players with a high block shedding rating? If so, this was what happened when I tested OL/DL interaction in the game---that is back when I still had the game. Defenders simply made a swim move every time regardless of the fact that their strength rating was as much as 60 points higher. What I saw was still not a very good representation of OL/DL interaction, even if the defenders were able to beat the linemen.

Exactly, why does Ngata, or any of the other Dlinemen, have to use any move other than a bull rush to beat a punter playing out of position at center ? It could be the fact that there's not such thing as a bull rush in Madden, but hey, that's another issue.

The problem, one of the problems, with Oline/Dline interaction is it's too black and white. A Dlineman either beats the blocker cleanly, or he's stone walled by the olineman. There are no instances where the olineman is still in between the pass rusher and the QB, but the olineman is being pushed backward, or losing ground.

You can tell if you're not going to get to the QB as soon as the interaction begins. If you don't get past the Qb on your first move, then let the ball room dancing begin.

[PGaither84]

^ This.

Agreed in full. A point AJ [adembroski] has made in the past is that EA has all DTs play like they are Warren Sapp and DEs play like they are D. Freeny. We don't have Richard Seymore, Casey Hampton, Kris Jenkins, Haloti Ngata type animation in the game, or if they did record them, they are not playing.

[youALREADYknow]

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

You're completely missing the issue. The issue is that the action is all randomized UNTIL the swim/rip/spin move animation is triggered.

There is NO concept of player weight, strength, etc. which determines the interaction between players. Again, if Brett Favre lines up at RG then he's going to end up on the ground in severe pain on 10 out of 10 snaps. In your videos, how many times did one of those players on the OL end up on the ground and physically dominated?

Do you think Terrence Cody needs to use a swim move to beat a QB? He would run through their frail bodies. Ditto Haloti Ngata.

The wasted motion and animation required to use "moves" is what makes the OL/DL interaction a complete mess. Furthermore, the effect of the ratings only impacts how many moves get made instead of who wins the actual battle at the line.

[PGaither84]

Quote: Originally Posted by youALREADYknow

You're completely missing the issue. The issue is that the action is all randomized UNTIL the swim/rip/spin move animation is triggered. There is NO concept of player weight, strength, etc. which determines the interaction between players. Again, if Brett Favre lines up at RG then he's going to end up on the ground in severe pain on 10 out of 10 snaps. In your videos, how many times did one of those players on the OL end up on the ground and physically dominated? Do you think Terrence Cody needs to use a swim move to beat a QB? He would run through their frail bodies. Ditto Haloti Ngata. The wasted motion and animation required to use "moves" is what makes the OL/DL interaction a complete mess. Furthermore, the effect of the ratings only impacts how many moves get made instead of who wins the actual battle at the line.

Let me put it this way... everything you just said, AJ and I talked about at CD. Afterwards, I emailed "EA" this video: [Skip to about 3:30]



To further make our point. I can't talk about how they replied, but I can say, I hope, that they were made fully aware of this issue. what they do about it is up to them.