Why Did the Comeback Route Change from Madden 10 to Madden 11?

[carnalnirvana]

i blame this on the DB ai and animation.......in the real life clip the DB is giving 5 yds cushion to wayne, this never happens in madden..........

the DB's in madden have 2 modes the back peddle and the sprint they have no hips which means they display NO technique at all......in the real life clip the DB has see the pass stop plant and recover to tackle, in madden that DB turn on a dime with out any regard for planting slowing down or even turning his hips........ bottom line the game needs more animations.........

but more animations leads to angle cheesing it will be pandora's box

[Johnny "Too Tall"]

Quote: Originally Posted by carnalnirvana

i blame this on the DB ai and animation.......in the real life clip the DB is giving 5 yds cushion to wayne, this never happens in madden.......... the DB's in madden have 2 modes the back peddle and the sprint they have no hips which means they display NO technique at all......in the real life clip the DB has see the pass stop plant and recover to tackle, in madden that DB turn on a dime with out any regard for planting slowing down or even turning his hips........ bottom line the game needs more animations......... but more animations leads to angle cheesing it will be pandora's box

Agree completely.
I think its says a lot that in all the games I've played online, I don't think I've seen someone run a comeback route on me once.

[shttymcgee]

I am going to half answer your question, then pose another problem with the game mechanics. The addition of locomotion into the game engine has basically made the sharp break of the original comeback route impossible, at least with the current animations. Watch the video closely, the receiver plants off the inside foot only (I call this a stick-cut). Its impossible to go from a dead sprint and make a such a sharp break (maybe 135 degrees) with just a one step move. The receiver trys to snap the route off, but he just cant get himself turned. Of course, the ball isnt placed properly either.

What should happen, is the receiver must "break down," coming to a complete stop before snapping back towards the los and to the outside.

But what about this problem. Notice how the timing in the specific route is off. In the video, the QB takes a 3 step drop from the gun (this coorelates to 5 from under the center), hitches then throws the ball immediately after the hitch. The receiver runs a 5 step stem before executing the break down, putting him at about 10 yds. In the game, the QB takes a 7 step drop, hitches, and still waits before delivering the ball. Meanwhile, the receiver runs a 7 step stem to get to about 14 yds and rounds off the route. I am ok with the two extra steps by both correlating to a greater route depth, but the it just isnt synchronized properly. The qb drops faster than a real qb, and the receiver is too slow to get to his landmark, even though they seem to cover more ground than what they should per stride.

[Palo20]

Quote: Originally Posted by carnalnirvana

i blame this on the DB ai and animation.......in the real life clip the DB is giving 5 yds cushion to wayne, this never happens in madden.......... the DB's in madden have 2 modes the back peddle and the sprint they have no hips which means they display NO technique at all......in the real life clip the DB has see the pass stop plant and recover to tackle, in madden that DB turn on a dime with out any regard for planting slowing down or even turning his hips........ bottom line the game needs more animations......... but more animations leads to angle cheesing it will be pandora's box

Yeah I agree. There really isn't any "off" coverage in Madden. Since I mostly play the CPU, I'd like to see the CPU make some presnap adjustments in defense the same way humans do. Call bump or off coverage. Spotlight a WR in zone and take my best WR away, but risk opening up another area. These adjustments would bring a ton of variety to the game.

[Palo20]

Quote: Originally Posted by shttymcgee

I am going to half answer your question, then pose another problem with the game mechanics. The addition of locomotion into the game engine has basically made the sharp break of the original comeback route impossible, at least with the current animations. Watch the video closely, the receiver plants off the inside foot only (I call this a stick-cut). Its impossible to go from a dead sprint and make a such a sharp break (maybe 135 degrees) with just a one step move. The receiver trys to snap the route off, but he just cant get himself turned. Of course, the ball isnt placed properly either. What should happen, is the receiver must "break down," coming to a complete stop before snapping back towards the los and to the outside. But what about this problem. Notice how the timing in the specific route is off. In the video, the QB takes a 3 step drop from the gun (this coorelates to 5 from under the center), hitches then throws the ball immediately after the hitch. The receiver runs a 5 step stem before executing the break down, putting him at about 10 yds. In the game, the QB takes a 7 step drop, hitches, and still waits before delivering the ball. Meanwhile, the receiver runs a 7 step stem to get to about 14 yds and rounds off the route. I am ok with the two extra steps by both correlating to a greater route depth, but the it just isnt synchronized properly. The qb drops faster than a real qb, and the receiver is too slow to get to his landmark, even though they seem to cover more ground than what they should per stride.

So we really just need a good WR animation where he breaks down and makes the proper cut for the comeback. Also need new CB animations to combat this.

I agree about the timing. Many of the routes are off.

[grunt]

Quote: Originally Posted by Palo20

I'm talking about the deep, sideline Comeback route (not the simple hitch route). A Manning to Wayne staple and I think it got ruined for Madden 11. The structure of the route changed for some reason and the Madden 11 Comeback route is less realistic and very difficult to complete. Even when thrown with perfect timing, the CB still usually breaks on the ball before the WR and the only way to catch it is to make an awkward user catch or sometimes the WR breaks into a sideline animation. Here is a comparison: Madden 10 Comeback Route Madden 11 Comeback Route Manning to Wayne Comeback Route Madden 10 looks much more realistic to me. The only issue they had was sometimes the CB would push the WR backwards in an awkward animation and forward progress would not be given. It would turn a 12 yard gain into a 4 yard gain.

The comeback route in Madden 11 look very similiar to the comeback route in the video. Madden 10 comeback route look more like a hitch route.

[Palo20]

Quote: Originally Posted by grunt

The comeback route in Madden 11 look very similiar to the comeback route in the video. Madden 10 comeback route look more like a hitch route.

Really? I think the madden 11 version is more like an out route where the WR tries to sell it to the inside first. There is no 45 degree path toward the sideline (or 135 degrees).

I probably could have gotten a better video of Wayne running the comeback.

Either way, the timing of the Madden 11 route makes it pretty much useless.

[TheCreep]

Quote: Originally Posted by Palo20

Really? I think the madden 11 version is more like an out route where the WR tries to sell it to the inside first. There is no 45 degree path toward the sideline (or 135 degrees). I probably could have gotten a better video of Wayne running the comeback. Either way, the timing of the Madden 11 route makes it pretty much useless.

Most definitely agree with the route being useless. I completely ignore that route, but it would be good if I could use it every now and then.

I noticed that you actually completed the pass. **** man, how in the hell did you do that? School me on that one if you would please lol.

Right now I'm thinking its because you have some quick WRs. I use the browns, maybe my WRs just aren't swift enough for me to utilize this route ya think?