Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

[tlc12576]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hova57

I personally have played madden 11 maybe 7 times. my son likes it alot more than i do. but after listening to the podcast i get the impression that they get it , but don't. I don't think they could add the soul need for the game only because the soul of football is the unexpectedness of it all. not everyone is x and o type of guy and football its mostly the x and o and the excitement of when it goes your way. to some this may be boring and cater to one area. so like they said in the podcast what do you do.

I have disagree with this. I think, it's actually the things we expect to see in Madden, from the NFL, that we don't, is what hurts the experience. When I watch a NFL game, my excitement is generated mostly by my expectations of the sport I have seen play out for so many years. The main unexpected excitement, for me, comes from the anticipation if my team will actually win and how the outcome will unfold. I think Madden actual does capture that unexpected spirit of "any given Sunday" but it's the things I expect to see play out on the NFL field, like "multi-hit tackles", WR/DB hand fighting, OL/DL trench warfare and QB/passing pocket necessity, that I think Madden does a poor job of.

[tlc12576]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

TLC, you need to work on your New Years Resolutions. tsk tsk, sorry couldn't resist that one. There isn't much to disagree with your above post, just remember, they also have a marketing department that is equally involved as the development department. Also, I do believe they watch the NFL and at the same time, have copies of the next Madden in a computer. This was very evident when part of the team visited Madden. It just needs to all come together at some point.

LOL. Yeah, I meant to put to after Christmas but...oh well.

To your point about marketing, I feel that but like I have said before, I'm addressing the things the devs are allowed to add. Like protak, it made it in the game for whatever reason but it currently does a poor job of visually representing the tackles you see in a NFL game broadcast. Especially when compared with a more basic tackle animation system used in NFL 2k5. I feel confident saying all this because Ian said the same thing in his Madden 10 blog about protak and that's how I know it.

He admitted to sacrificing visual realism to give the user more control. I think this is the wrong perspective to have when creating a NFL video game and that's why I suggested a change. Just like with NBA Elite, EA thought they could put out a visually inferior sports title and make the unprecedented user control using the new physics system its' main selling point. You see how that went over, because when simulating an actual sport, it is critical for a next-gen video game to meet a reasonable visual standard of the real sport. People have a visual expectation that has already been set by the repetition of seeing these sports play out, in real life.

Sacrificing visual realism for control in any simulation, is a complete contradiction. If they are building Madden to be a NFL simulation, that should mean they are building it to simulate what we see play out, on a NFL field. Except for the actual NFL players on the field, the rest of us experience the NFL visually and when that doesn't carry over the same to Madden, it disrupts our NFL experience.

More user control is great but how that control plays out visually is critical for user enjoyment. Until they set their focus on reasonable visual NFL realism for ALL aspects, Madden will continue to feel like it's missing something.

That something is the visual connection most Madden gamers, casual and hardcore, have mentally with the actual NFL.

[illwill10]

One of the problems I see with Madden current gen is that one year they improve or add a feature then they put it on the backburner for the next few years(SS, Online franchise, off. franchise) and they will try to add more features. They should just improve all aspects they have and then try to add more features. When you dont improves features or key aspects they get dull and dont get play time(SS mode).

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by tlc12576

He admitted to sacrificing visual realism to give the user more control. I think this is the wrong perspective to have when creating a NFL video game and that's why I suggested a change. Just like with NBA Elite, EA thought they could put out a visually inferior sports title and make the unprecedented user control using the new physics system its' main selling point. You see how that went over, because when simulating an actual sport, it is critical for a next-gen video game to meet a reasonable visual standard of the real sport.

To an extent, all videogames do this. Even NBA2K allows for some "creativity" in movement that you otherwise couldn't pull off in real life.

With that said, remember when the NCAA retail was out and the Madden demo was released? Several OSers complained that Madden's locomotion was too tight and that NCAA's felt better i.e. more loose. I was surprised to hear so many OSers say this! But it proved at least to me that fun ranks right up there with realism.

So I don't know that we can really say that Ian's/Tiburon's vision is wrong when it appears to be supported by OSers, even if they don't intend to. Regardless, for better or worse, Ian is a user control guy (IMO). I don't look for that to change; after all, it is a videogame.

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As for presentation, I did suggest to Ian via Twitter that they do a podcast on the shortcomings of presentation the past couple years and what the vision is for it. He responded that it may be feasible, but also noted that there should not be any shortcomings this year presentationally. I know better than to get too excited about that, but take it for what it's worth.

For a sports gamer like myself, presentation is the big thing this game is missing. I can have fun with the gameplay, but everything else is so boring. The overlays (or lack thereof), the bland & fragmented commentary, and whatever else you want to pick out make this game boring. Let's face it: not every play in football is a big play. It's not fun to watch 3-4 yard runs or short passes. That's why presentation is SOOOOO important! There's gotta be stuff in between plays that keeps the user engaged. Otherwise, you're just going through the motions.

[illwill10]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

As for presentation, I did suggest to Ian via Twitter that they do a podcast on the shortcomings of presentation the past couple years and what the vision is for it. He responded that it may be feasible, but also noted that there should not be any shortcomings this year presentationally. I know better than to get too excited about that, but take it for what it's worth. For a sports gamer like myself, presentation is the big thing this game is missing. I can have fun with the gameplay, but everything else is so boring. The overlays (or lack thereof), the bland & fragmented commentary, and whatever else you want to pick out make this game boring. Let's face it: not every play in football is a big play. It's not fun to watch 3-4 yard runs or short passes. That's why presentation is SOOOOO important! There's gotta be stuff in between plays that keeps the user engaged. Otherwise, you're just going through the motions.

I agree. The gameplay is playable, but presentation is boring. Without good presentation it is useless to play franchise mode. There needs to be more stat overlays, season stat overlays(ex 1200 rush yards), there is no franchise commentary at all. There needs to be out of game presentation.

[Hova57]

more in depth presentation would be great, but if they do it. it can be small flashes of info andmake sure you can see not like ncaa 11 were you barely can see the stat. I never understood how well presentation can be done and feel til i played nba2k11 no that has its issues, but even something along that direction would be good for the game. Whatever they do Franchise and Season modes need the most attention for stats they should be able to talk about stats during hafltime and end of week.

[tlc12576]

@Rgiles, I feel like you took just a snippet of my post and commented. My point was that visuals are critical to every area of a video game including control. If a feature adds user control but does not translate well visually in-game, it can detract from the enjoyment of the feature in general, like with protak.

I feel your point about the presentation upgrades but the "icing", as I keep calling it, want matter much if the cake ain't right. I am all for improved commentary, new overlays and a general upgrade in Madden presentation. However, if Madden 12 adds similar presentation from NFL 2k5, like the highlight shows and reels, without addressing the way player interactions play out, on the field, it would most likely hurt the NFL immersion of Madden, even more.

They really need to get the all player interactions visually, reasonably represented before that start actually putting a spotlight on these areas with highlights and game recaps.

[Keenan G.]

They need to have their presentation like NBA2k11. That would keep me coming back. As of right now Madden 11 is boring and its sitting on my shelf collecting dust. I just want Madden to be more immersive.