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Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

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Old 01-05-2011, 02:11 PM   #97
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Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

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Originally Posted by tlc12576
I am looking forward to Madden 12 being focused on real football, like they said in podcast 1 and don't want to belittle anyone's effort in Madden over the years. Madden is beloved and revered by millions so anyone working on the game should take great satisfaction in this fact. Also, there is a quote I like from boxer Floyd Mayweather Jr. that says, "People always want to tell you how to do what you do, when they can't do what you do" or something like that. LOL

That said, I don't really agree with the claim Bezo took anything out of context when looking at the big picture for what has been said and done with Madden, even if we start at Madden 10.

If Madden had a more authentic NFL football simulation foundation, the comment about customization would fall in the context of "now that the NFL simulation foundation in Madden is solid, we can focus on letting individual gamers adjust their own experience". Madden, in its' current state makes this comment, along with a few others, fall in the context of " a NFL simulation is not for everybody out the box so lets add more customization so individual gamers can make Madden more realistic."

I don't think that's being rude or overly critical but a rational assessment of the perspective some Madden devs seem to have when creating Madden. I think that's why Bezo posted that, not just because of that one comment in the context of that conversation but do to the bigger context of how user customization is repeatedly referred to as a tool to for more realism. However, in a NFL simulation game like Madden, simulating NFL reality, should be priority "out the box", with customization available for gamers to alter NFL reality, in-game, as they see fit and not the other way around.

So when looking at the ENTIRE context of how customization has been discussed concerning Madden and more importantly, the content of customization in Madden, Bezo wasn't being unfair, IMO. He actually pointed out a different perspective that could hopefully change the way some devs seem to view customization and NFL authenticity in Madden.

Its not what you say youre gonna do, its about how you do what you said youd do when it comes time to do it. Kelly Ferguson, a former Army boxer and strategist.
With all due respect TLC, I do love to hear the phrase, Customization is king. I think Ian was trying to say, authenticity is in the big picture, as in now and the future.

Can't change what's been done in the past. In the past, (talking about 06, 7, 8 and maybe 9), we all weren't on the same page regarding authenticity. Now, I get the feeling that the bigger pictures includes more, Everything you see on Sunday.

I'm sure I'll get feedback on that, but I'm used to that. I have a better feeling it's going towards that way than I did several years ago.
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:05 PM   #98
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Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

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With all due respect TLC, I do love to hear the phrase, Customization is king. I think Ian was trying to say, authenticity is in the big picture, as in now and the future.
Can't change what's been done in the past. In the past, (talking about 06, 7, 8 and maybe 9), we all weren't on the same page regarding authenticity. Now, I get the feeling that the bigger pictures includes more, Everything you see on Sunday.

I'm sure I'll get feedback on that, but I'm used to that. I have a better feeling it's going towards that way than I did several years ago.
I sure most people like the phrase but the main thing is the context and meaning of it. I am not ranting and raving about customization being acknowledged, I am talking about what some devs seem to mean when they discuss customization and realism in relation to how they are implemented into Madden.

They seem to be of the perspective that "customization is king" for users to get a more authentic and realistic NFL experience in Madden. I whole heartedly, respectfully disagree with that perspective towards creating Madden going forward because it is supposed to be a NFL simulation video game to start with.

Customization in Madden should be a way to attract gamers who are NOT that interested in NFL authenticity and want to experience football in their own unique way. Not marketed to or created for simulation gamers that actually want and expect NFL realism to be standard in Madden, to use to achieve "their own version" of sim.

I don't mean any harm but I really don't know why so many people prescribe to the notion that sim is subjective and opinionated. There is the way the NFL actually is and then there is the way different people want it to be. Recreating the way the actual NFL is in a video game is creating a NFL simulation, allowing users to recreate the NFL how they think it should be or what it is to them, is customization.

Customization is appropriate for adding diversity in Madden's "court" but simulation should always be King.
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:55 PM   #99
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Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

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Originally Posted by tlc12576

Customization is appropriate for adding diversity in Madden's "court" but simulation should always be King.
I don't think the present developers disagree with you, do you?

I really don't think it is that cut and dry what sim in the NFL is to some people. If you went out and asked 10 different people, you would get 10 different answers.

Last edited by roadman; 01-05-2011 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:00 PM   #100
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Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

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Originally Posted by tlc12576
I sure most people like the phrase but the main thing is the context and meaning of it. I am not ranting and raving about customization being acknowledged, I am talking about what some devs seem to mean when they discuss customization and realism in relation to how they are implemented into Madden.

They seem to be of the perspective that "customization is king" for users to get a more authentic and realistic NFL experience in Madden. I whole heartedly, respectfully disagree with that perspective towards creating Madden going forward because it is supposed to be a NFL simulation video game to start with.

Customization in Madden should be a way to attract gamers who are NOT that interested in NFL authenticity and want to experience football in their own unique way. Not marketed to or created for simulation gamers that actually want and expect NFL realism to be standard in Madden, to use to achieve "their own version" of sim.

I don't mean any harm but I really don't know why so many people prescribe to the notion that sim is subjective and opinionated. There is the way the NFL actually is and then there is the way different people want it to be. Recreating the way the actual NFL is in a video game is creating a NFL simulation, allowing users to recreate the NFL how they think it should be or what it is to them, is customization.

Customization is appropriate for adding diversity in Madden's "court" but simulation should always be King.
I agree with what TLC is saying, and in a short, concise way: Customization does not create authenticity. Authenticity allows for users to use customization and still create a realistic NFL game.
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:33 PM   #101
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Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

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Originally Posted by tlc12576
...That said, I don't really agree with the claim Bezo took anything out of context when looking at the big picture for what has been said and done with Madden, even if we start at Madden 10.

If Madden had a more authentic NFL football simulation foundation, the comment about customization would fall in the context of "now that the NFL simulation foundation in Madden is solid, we can focus on letting individual gamers adjust their own experience". Madden, in its' current state makes this comment, along with a few others, fall in the context of " a NFL simulation is not for everybody out the box so lets add more customization so individual gamers can make Madden more realistic."
EAXACTLY what tlc12576 said. I didn't want to get into that, but I'm not taking the comment out of context. I'm putting it in context with the current state of the game, which I don't feel is an authentic simulation of NFL football.
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:35 PM   #102
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Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

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Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA
We were on the topic of customization dude. Not really fair to take that out of context and act like that's my sole purpose in life to create more customization. Authenticity is obviously more important in the bigger picture.
Not what I was saying, but good to see you around OS Ian. Stay a while.
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:51 PM   #103
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Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

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EAXACTLY what tlc12576 said. I didn't want to get into that, but I'm not taking the comment out of context. I'm putting it in context with the current state of the game, which I don't feel is an authentic simulation of NFL football.


I'm glad somebody said it...Because of exclusivity there's a whole generation of nfl gamers that may never see what a real sim game is!! I guess ignorance is bliss
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:17 AM   #104
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Re: Madden NFL Designers Podcast #4 w/ Special Guest, Pasta Padre Available Now

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"Customization is king in sports gaming" - Nah, authenticity is king.
I remember playing the earliest Maddens, before they could use actual team names/jerseys. I couldn't wait until they could use the NFL teams. Then I was wanting the actual players. After I got the first two of my wishes fulfilled, I wanted to create myself in the game, and create a new team (and poof it happened).

Ever since Madden went next-gen different aspects of individual game customization have been stripped out of the game, and have left me wanting what we used to have. Like the more robust create-a-team/player from last-gen, and other optional features that have been discontinued.

Pure and complete authenticity is not realistically attainable in a game, EX: How would you like to have Sullivan hike the ball screwy each time you are in the shotgun, or if your team turned the ball over constantly. or if your HB slipped around in the snow (like a figure skater). Yes it would be more realistic, but where do we draw the line between fun and realistic. It would be nice if these situations happened every once and a while, and if weather had an affect on gameplay, but if they happened on a regular (realistic) basis it could get frustrating.

I understand that authenticity is important to you, but if you are able to customize the game you can produce your own sense of authenticity. EX-1: If you think that Donny didn't rate a player authentically, then with customization, you the player can change it. EX-2: If you think that there aren't enough penalties being called, a slider can fix it for you. EX-3: If you don't think that the players are moving at the correct speed, a slider can fix that too.

Even though I do think that there are some bugs, and other aspects that make Madden less desireable than it's predecessors. I do think that Madden has always strived to make the most authentic NFL product that they can, and have tried to keep that as their mantra. And I do believe that the Dev. team has successfully made the Madden series as close to authentic as they can.

Yes I understand that there is stil room for improvement, EX: IR, PS, FA, trade logic, progression/regression, penalties, challenges, physics, and depth. But from the sounds of it, they are working to fix alot of these disfunctional items.

What authentic/sim. aspects that are currently missing in Madden are you guys wanting for M-12' and beyond?

Last edited by Reejer; 01-06-2011 at 11:32 AM.
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