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An AREA of AI and CPU that hasn't really been discussed...

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Old 12-24-2010, 02:24 PM   #1
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An AREA of AI and CPU that hasn't really been discussed...

Folks, forgive me if this indeed was discussed at some point somewhere, I just havent seen it and its been on my mind for a few versions now. One thing I have noticed, and would love some others to give me their observations too, is that the CPU's Stats and Franchise wins/losses and stats dont really match up similar to the results you observe when you play them on the field.

Let me explain, In my franchise, season 3, the New England Patriots are struggling at 2-7 in the division and have some of the lowest offensive and defensive Team Stats in the League. So I expected to see this play out when my USER controlled Dolphins (stacked and modified team who were 7-2) played them....This was not the case. And I've noticed this over the years of Madden to be true as well.

It seems, no matter, how good or bad an AI team is performing in the Franchise, it doesnt have any carry over to your games on the field. It seems like Madden's gameplay engine simply performs to only the user ratings and doesnt factor in any slumping, momentum, or rhythm a team is demonstrating in the SIMMED games against other CPU teams.

It's like all smoke and mirrors and leads to a pretty dull and predictable performances by the AI when you play them.

Back to my example above, New England had a team rating of 87, despite the fact that they were having a lousy season and were 2-7. They trounced me easily, which conformed to the notion that the AI simply factored in the team's and player's true ratings, while simply ignoring any type of slump, or struggles they were having all season against other teams.

Now I just isolated this 1 example to explain my point. But I've been noticing this, both ways, throughout many of my franchise games, and over the many iterations of Madden thru the years. It's like you can throw out all the stats, and performances the cpu has achieved during the season against other teams, no need to scout hot or cold players, because it seems like it's all franchise window dressing/eye candy to make the mode feel deeper than it really is. So that hot Overall 72 rated AI rookie that has been tearing up the league during the season and making a name for himself, simply plays like a 72 rated player when it comes time to play you the USER, on the field.

I was just hoping to see more of a realistic tie in and continuity with the Franchise AI results and trends carry out thru my USER vs AI franchise games to get a better sensation of realism....Im not really seeing that relationship.....Its almost as if all your USER Franchise games could simply utilize the PLAY NOW feature and obtain the same results.

Am I making sense...and what are your observations?


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Old 12-24-2010, 02:33 PM   #2
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Re: An AREA of AI and CPU that hasn't really been discussed...

I've noticed it both ways. I'll play a team rated higher than me and who's having a good season and I'll beat them easily. Then the next game I'll play a team with a bad record and a lower rating and they'll beat me. I feel like it's all random it would be cool if what you're talking about did happen, but at the same time the NFL is pretty random from week to week as well
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Old 12-24-2010, 02:36 PM   #3
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Re: An AREA of AI and CPU that hasn't really been discussed...

I wish they would bring back player morale. I feel like they are related. If a team is doing bad, the players morale would go down, and their ratings would go down to have them play bad. And if they doing good, the moral will go back to normal. But I would like to the morale to be easier to change unlike the PS2 versions of Madden.
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Old 12-24-2010, 03:26 PM   #4
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Re: An AREA of AI and CPU that hasn't really been discussed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by moylan
I've noticed it both ways. I'll play a team rated higher than me and who's having a good season and I'll beat them easily. Then the next game I'll play a team with a bad record and a lower rating and they'll beat me. I feel like it's all random it would be cool if what you're talking about did happen, but at the same time the NFL is pretty random from week to week as well
I do agree with you about the parody in the NFL, however, I still feel like there should be some sort of relationship between your actual Franchise games you play and the games that are simmed. There should be some sort of continuity in regards to players having good/poor seasons above or below their actual ratings when you actually play the games out.

Im not saying there should be total performance bell curves, but the level of randomness is a bit too......well, random. But I dont even know if its randomness as much as its the AI seems to be designed in such a way that it completely ignores statistical performances and trends from teams and players, just derives its results based on the player attributes when you play the games out. I think there should be a slightly deeper formula that factors in some of those other variables

I guess...Im not sure, but the games lack a certain feeling of overall Franchise-ness and moreso like just a bunch of individual PLAY NOW games strung together 16 times.....No sense of carryover whatsoever...at least for me.
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Old 12-24-2010, 03:36 PM   #5
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Re: An AREA of AI and CPU that hasn't really been discussed...

It's parity, not parody.

And the sim-engine on madden is trash...an 87 rated team shouldn't be 2-7.
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Old 12-24-2010, 04:35 PM   #6
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Re: An AREA of AI and CPU that hasn't really been discussed...

I definitely agree with the OP and that's part of why I would like to see a simple addition to Madden like this:

Make AWR ratings fluctuate for specific games ( AWR for every player of the home team gets a boost and every player on the away team takes a hit. Keep it simple and base it on home/away record, every home win gives +1 AWR at home and every road loss gives -1 AWR away. For franchise play, it would be based on in-game franchise home/away record and other modes like online ranked, play now, etc, would be based on real life current home/away record included in team updates. Also, add a +2 home/- 2 away AWR bonus for rivalry games and +3 home/-3 away for the playoffs in franchises).

Now of course. there is room for adjustment to this idea, maybe having an even bigger impact on AWR and other ratings but I think people get my point. Something like this would help link win/losses and on-feild player performance.
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Old 12-24-2010, 06:30 PM   #7
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Re: An AREA of AI and CPU that hasn't really been discussed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa_Bonami
I guess...Im not sure, but the games lack a certain feeling of overall Franchise-ness and moreso like just a bunch of individual PLAY NOW games strung together 16 times.....No sense of carryover whatsoever...at least for me.
I feel the same way. A weekly highlight show (preferably narrated) that shows you visually some of what's going on elsewhere in your league would help bring a sense of cohesion and immersion to franchise mode. I think some game made 7 years ago did something like that.

EDIT: I suppose it would help big time if it could at least reference past seasons (e.g., the reigning Super Bowl champs lost to a team that went 2-14 last season in this week 7 match-up...)
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Old 12-24-2010, 07:14 PM   #8
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Re: An AREA of AI and CPU that hasn't really been discussed...

Chemistry Ratings for each team...too keep it simple just hav OFF Chemistry and DEF chemistry...this will affect teams on the field.

Add a Consistency rating, the value can be the actual percentage of the time the play plays to his full ratings potential..b/c all of the 99 this week, 98 the next can stop b/c u can alter his consistency higher so he always plays at the top of his game [ratings]. (Ex. Peyton Manning 98 OVR w/ 94 CON, Carson Palmer 86 OVR 70 CON)

Then over the season you can really assess what his OVR should be based on his consistency in real life. Instead of CJ2k is 99, now 98, well after that his is back up too 99....Because him having a big week may not mean go up in OVR, just him being himself. Veterans will have lower ratings with higher CON and Rookies may be high OVR but low CON. So that 70 always play near and that 75 rook may play at 63 sometimes.

The CON rating could also go hand in hand w/ the dynamic in game ratings. Poor plays would affect consistent players less and they may not increase or decrease too much...whereas that rook could fluctuate a bit more noticeably in game.

The Team Chemisty can highlight or hide a players inconsistency b/c of the players around him also.
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