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seanmac · 08-19-2003, 03:37 AM

Madden has grown on me to the point where I'm really feeling the game, but it has two huge problems- the run blocking AI is bad, and the DB play is atrocious. Run blocking is poorly executed on nearly every level- any play that involves pulling or trapping is fairly worthless as the guards never get out in space without drawing three defenders to them, and the interior blocking on dives, slams, off-tackles, and other inside runs is really bad. I've seen numerous replays where four OL will be in position to block three defenders, and instead there will be two double teams, leaving the third man completely alone to make a play at the LOS. And the DB AI is simply not good. Using playmaker is more or less a requirement, and even then the DBs just do bizarre things. I just finished up a play where I was in dime coverage against a four wide set. The play called for bump and run on the two slot receivers and dropbacks by the outside corners. So what happens? The slot corner runs over to the outside and bumps the outside receiver, completely leaving his man, who of course is wide open and catches the ball for a fifteen yard gain. Stuff like this happens all the time, which makes me wonder how in the world every review cited the improved DB play.

Also, what's with players standing stock still when you switch to them? I've given up repeated touchdowns where I tried switching to the safety, only to have him stop moving completely while I took over, giving the ball carrier time to head for the races.

I'm seeing more defensive AI flaws than in 2003, which is a shame, because in almost every other way this year's game is better.

Msu_twinsfan · 08-19-2003, 04:07 AM

Its far to easy to pass in Madden. Dime and Quarter don't do a think cause there is always someone open. I am so tired so Maddens atrocious DB play I am ready to give up. I am having the the same problem running the ball. The DB awareness is atrocious this year, even the int's I am getting this year are all by the comp. I try to take control of db and make ints but I feel its better off the cpu does it. I almost feel like the CPU plays the defense and I just pick the plays.

seanmac · 08-19-2003, 04:33 AM

My read right now on defending the pass is that you have to do multiple things in pre-snap for nearly every play. You need to make your initial play call, then adjust the secondary and/or the linebacker coverage, then utilize playmaker to shift coverages or to identify the pass. If you do everything and you have a reasonable matchup, you can usually stop the pass (if you have Tyrone Poole on Randy Moss, you're getting what you deserve). In some ways, it's good to have to be so involved, but it seems like a cover for what is basically bad DB AI programming.

K_GUN · 08-19-2003, 07:47 AM

espn....just 2 weeks away

BSB215 · 08-19-2003, 08:04 AM

And what's mind boggling is in NCAA the DB AI is excellent. I guess Madden was too concerned with playmaker and the owner mode but all of that dont mean a thing when you cant play defense in the game. It's a shame. This is the first year I have even give thought to bringing Madden back......

Graphik · 08-19-2003, 08:53 AM

I simply dont control the DBs. I never have. Yea, sometimes they'll piss you off by jumping the wrong way or watching a ball go over thier head but for the most part they do a good job. I also have my awarness up to 15 so that helps also.

Bill_Abner · 08-19-2003, 08:59 AM

Quote:

BSB215 said:
And what's mind boggling is in NCAA the DB AI is excellent. I guess Madden was too concerned with playmaker and the owner mode but all of that dont mean a thing when you cant play defense in the game. It's a shame. This is the first year I have even give thought to bringing Madden back......

Yep. It looks like there's a trade off going on. You get good (maybe too good) DB AI in NCAA and as a result you will get very few YAC (most of the time). Whereas in Madden the DB AI is weaker, especially in covering posts to the slot receiver, but you'll get a much better and more realistic YAC. Pick your poison. But I'll take NCAA.

LBzrule · 08-19-2003, 09:02 AM

Zone Defense is your best friend in madden. And even then you gotta PRAY LOL that they do right. For the most part they do, but sometimes they will be in their backpedal and see the Receiver make his move right or left and for some reason they will move in the opposite direction. You go back and look at their assignment, the area they were supposed to cover on that play and just yell you slapped jawed ******* mutha, get your a$$ on the bench. You are not playing. Too bad I gotta tell a CB who is rated over 90 that

Of any DB he should know what to do, should be making jumps on any passes, should not be getting confused and going in a different direction away from the WR that's attempting to catch the ball in his area of the zone. This doesn't happen all the time, but it happens sometimes and it is annoying. IF the CB was in the 70's I'd understand it alot better, but not someone over 88. Anything over 88 we are talking pro bowl calibur players in madden.

08-19-2003, 03:37 AM	#1
seanmac MVP OVR: 8 Join Date: Jul 2002	Messed up defensive AI Madden has grown on me to the point where I'm really feeling the game, but it has two huge problems- the run blocking AI is bad, and the DB play is atrocious. Run blocking is poorly executed on nearly every level- any play that involves pulling or trapping is fairly worthless as the guards never get out in space without drawing three defenders to them, and the interior blocking on dives, slams, off-tackles, and other inside runs is really bad. I've seen numerous replays where four OL will be in position to block three defenders, and instead there will be two double teams, leaving the third man completely alone to make a play at the LOS. And the DB AI is simply not good. Using playmaker is more or less a requirement, and even then the DBs just do bizarre things. I just finished up a play where I was in dime coverage against a four wide set. The play called for bump and run on the two slot receivers and dropbacks by the outside corners. So what happens? The slot corner runs over to the outside and bumps the outside receiver, completely leaving his man, who of course is wide open and catches the ball for a fifteen yard gain. Stuff like this happens all the time, which makes me wonder how in the world every review cited the improved DB play. Also, what's with players standing stock still when you switch to them? I've given up repeated touchdowns where I tried switching to the safety, only to have him stop moving completely while I took over, giving the ball carrier time to head for the races. I'm seeing more defensive AI flaws than in 2003, which is a shame, because in almost every other way this year's game is better.

08-19-2003, 04:07 AM	#2
Msu_twinsfan Rookie OVR: 1 Join Date: Feb 2003	*Re: F@!ked up defensive AI** Its far to easy to pass in Madden. Dime and Quarter don't do a think cause there is always someone open. I am so tired so Maddens atrocious DB play I am ready to give up. I am having the the same problem running the ball. The DB awareness is atrocious this year, even the int's I am getting this year are all by the comp. I try to take control of db and make ints but I feel its better off the cpu does it. I almost feel like the CPU plays the defense and I just pick the plays.

08-19-2003, 04:33 AM	#3
seanmac MVP OVR: 8 Join Date: Jul 2002	*Re: F@!ked up defensive AI** My read right now on defending the pass is that you have to do multiple things in pre-snap for nearly every play. You need to make your initial play call, then adjust the secondary and/or the linebacker coverage, then utilize playmaker to shift coverages or to identify the pass. If you do everything and you have a reasonable matchup, you can usually stop the pass (if you have Tyrone Poole on Randy Moss, you're getting what you deserve). In some ways, it's good to have to be so involved, but it seems like a cover for what is basically bad DB AI programming.

08-19-2003, 07:47 AM	#4
K_GUN Ctzn f RSN OVR: 22 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Dantooine Posts: 3,880	*Re: F@!ked up defensive AI** espn....just 2 weeks away

08-19-2003, 08:04 AM	#5
BSB215 Rookie OVR: 4 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: SP	*Re: F@!ked up defensive AI** And what's mind boggling is in NCAA the DB AI is excellent. I guess Madden was too concerned with playmaker and the owner mode but all of that dont mean a thing when you cant play defense in the game. It's a shame. This is the first year I have even give thought to bringing Madden back......

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08-19-2003, 08:53 AM	#6
Graphik Prsnr#70460649 OVR: 22* Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Chi-Town, Ill-State Posts: 10,580	*Re: F@!ked up defensive AI** I simply dont control the DBs. I never have. Yea, sometimes they'll piss you off by jumping the wrong way or watching a ball go over thier head but for the most part they do a good job. I also have my awarness up to 15 so that helps also.

08-19-2003, 08:59 AM	#7
Bill_Abner MVP OVR: 12 Join Date: Sep 2002	*Re: F@!ked up defensive AI Quote: BSB215 said:** And what's mind boggling is in NCAA the DB AI is excellent. I guess Madden was too concerned with playmaker and the owner mode but all of that dont mean a thing when you cant play defense in the game. It's a shame. This is the first year I have even give thought to bringing Madden back...... Yep. It looks like there's a trade off going on. You get good (maybe too good) DB AI in NCAA and as a result you will get very few YAC (most of the time). Whereas in Madden the DB AI is weaker, especially in covering posts to the slot receiver, but you'll get a much better and more realistic YAC. Pick your poison. But I'll take NCAA.

08-19-2003, 09:02 AM	#8
LBzrule Hall Of Fame OVR: 40 Join Date: Jul 2002 Blog Entries: 8	*Re: F@!ked up defensive AI Zone Defense is your best friend in madden. And even then you gotta PRAY LOL that they do right. For the most part they do, but sometimes they will be in their backpedal and see the Receiver make his move right or left and for some reason they will move in the opposite direction. You go back and look at their assignment, the area they were supposed to cover on that play and just yell you slapped jawed ***** mutha, get your a$$ on the bench. You are not playing. Too bad I gotta tell a CB who is rated over 90 that Of any DB he should know what to do, should be making jumps on any passes, should not be getting confused and going in a different direction away from the WR that's attempting to catch the ball in his area of the zone. This doesn't happen all the time, but it happens sometimes and it is annoying. IF the CB was in the 70's I'd understand it alot better, but not someone over 88. Anything over 88 we are talking pro bowl calibur players in madden.

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Messed up defensive AI