Rating Correlations

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by guaps

I guess this statement kinda confirms that ratings in Madden are just a way to rank players and explains why the game can be so unpredictable at times. Tiburon should just acknowledge that their ratings aren't working perfectly instead of adding new ratings and stretching the current ones. It's hardly a coherent ratings philosophy by any standard, if the programmers don't even know how stretching the ratings affects the gameplay that they are working on.

Well said!

[carnalnirvana]

Quote: Originally Posted by adembroski

I don't think it's a matter of things being a secret... it's a matter of being right. Between the number of people who work on the game, there are very few instances of one person knowing how all these things working, so when one person attempts to answer, invariably, the answer is less than 100% accurate. I checked on Catch in Traffic; it seems it works independently of catch. To me, this makes perfect sense when you look at a player like Terrell Owens who, especially during his years with the 'Niners, made spectacular grabs in heavy traffic (see The Catch II), but would regularly drop wide open passes (see the rest of that game).

thx,

on a side note alot of us do our own editing and some details on the ratings would be great if you can ever find the time to relay some info.

[adembroski]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bballplaya72

Makes perfect sense to me too. I'm assuming spectacular catch is the same, which first person that comes to mind is Brandon Lloyd. Before last year he would ROUTINELY drop easy passes, yet make some of the best catches you'd ever seen.

Spectacular Catch is a weird one. It doesn't work quite the same way... basically, SPC gives a given player access to animations that will allow him to get to passes he might not otherwise be able to get too, but his CIT or CTH rating still must pass its check for the catch to be made.

In other words, Brandon Lloyd will drop passes other players can't even get a hand on.

The thing is, when it was originally implemented, it was used as a mechanic in and of itself... that mechanic didn't really fit the current vision for Madden, so it was scrapped, so it doesn't do what it did originally. I'd like to see it renamed. What it really represents is something a scout would call the ability to catch outside the frame.

Disclaimer: I can't dig into the code and look at this stuff, that's above my pay grade. I'm going by what I've gathered from those who can. I'm not promising anything I say is perfectly accurate.

[adembroski]

Quote: Originally Posted by guaps

I guess this statement kinda confirms that ratings in Madden are just a way to rank players and explains why the game can be so unpredictable at times. Tiburon should just acknowledge that their ratings aren't working perfectly instead of adding new ratings and stretching the current ones. It's hardly a coherent ratings philosophy by any standard, if the programmers don't even know how stretching the ratings affects the gameplay that they are working on.

I need to elaborate because that was a terrible way to say it. I didn't mean how that came off at all.

What I mean is that no one person can describe how every single aspect of the game works. If someone's been there a year and worked primarily on run blocking, it's likely he doesn't have a ton of experience dealing with catching. If I asked someone to get me a detailed rundown of every place every rating is referenced in code, they'd look at me like I was insane and ask if I actually want to do their job in the meantime so they can actually get something done for the 3 weeks it took to find it all.

Now, Donny's been there for a very long time and has a good grasp of what the ratings do, because it's his job to know and he's talked to all the right people at the right times in order to know. The trouble is, he's out of the office right now and I can't ask him.

We DO know how stretching the ratings effects the game because we can do that on our own personal builds without affecting anybody else's. I've done a lot of testing in this area on my own. Generally speaking, it breaks it. The game is built expecting a certain range of ratings, and if they come in too far over or under that, you start getting game imbalances.

I think if you want a good example of this, take a look at NCAA 09 and it's Wide Open Gameplay. The ratings themselves weren't changed in terms of real numbers, but the curve that is represented by those numbers was significantly changed, so it was the exact same effect.

I realize it's very popular to believe that all of us are either half-clueless or don't care, but I assure you this isn't the case. There is always somewhere one can go for the appropriate information, I'm just still learning who those people are.

[adembroski]

Quote: Originally Posted by carnalnirvana

thx, on a side note alot of us do our own editing and some details on the ratings would be great if you can ever find the time to relay some info.

Most of them are, quite honestly, very self explanatory. The ones I've described are pretty much the only ones that aren't fairly obvious. Of course, Overall isn't a rating so much as a measurement of all the other ratings as they apply to a given position. It's never referenced in-game, it's there for your benefit only.

Speed is full-stride, maximum running velocity
Agility is ability to maintain speed when changing direction; also plays into break block and beat press calculations, I think
Acceleration is rate at which top speed is achieved

I want to look into strength a little bit. I'll get back to you when I know a bit more.

[ambizytl]

I don't understand the ratings in this game as how they pertain to players on the User team. For example, my WR at 6'1" with jump rating of 94 is bending over while the ball is going over his head to the CB directly behind him who jumps up to catch the ball; top offensive linemen highly rated with very good strength and footwork let CPU defense players get through as if they don't see those guys; meanwhile, the CPU lesser talented offensive linemen react to a blitzing player from my team to block him. I continually see CPU players react to block Clay Matthews while my guys just act like they have a vision problem. I've seen these and more of this one-sided effect on All-Pro level, even with adjustments to CPU sliders as if the sliders mean nothing. Finley (TE) with a catch rating of I think 92 in the final updated roster dropped 4 passes out of 6 or 7 in one game!

[raguel]

Quote:

Agility is ability to maintain speed when changing direction; also plays into break block and beat press calculations, I think

So if all other things are equal, which receiver runs better routes: the one with 90 RTE and 70 AGI or the one with 70 RTE and 90 AGI?

[carnalnirvana]

to touch on what adembroski, said about the curving of the ratings in ncaa 09,

i wish agility and strenght would be curved to tighten up the game, so guys rated in the 50 and 60's protect them selves.

i did a test today where i edited R wayne STR to 35 and every time i tackled him as well as the cpu it looked closer to what you would expect. and not the bowling pins tackling

i saw him get hit by 2 players, he didnt always fall foward, got lit up anyway i feel that the modifier for str triggers on guys it shouldn't like WR, qb's DB's.... if the devs dont want to give out 30's for ratings then the curve needs to be tighter to where 50's is BAD.

and this is what i hope the tuners address, giving us a different experience based on the execution of the game, not bug fixes or stat tuning like we had on ncaa. i am hoping madden does not go that route as well