Rating Correlations

[Claymaker52]

One thing I have never understood is the relationship between two or more ratings. The one that bothers me the most is Catch and Catch in traffic. How do those two relate to each other? For instance, if a WR has a CTH of 70, but a CIT of 99, how does that relate to the field? Is he more likely to catch the ball in traffic as opposed to the open field? Is it the average of the two, or is the CIT the only rating that matters, in those situations? Another one is awareness, and play recognition. If a player has 90 PRC, but only 50 AWR, how do they relate to each other, and what one comes in handy the most, when trying to make a play?

There are others such as block strength and strength as well. But those are the two main ones that I have never quite understood. Like how can anyone have a better CIT then CTH? Or how can anyone have such high play recognition, but be pretty dumb overall when it comes to awareness. If anyone has the answers it would be much appreciated.

[Competitor]

Quote: Originally Posted by Claymaker52

One thing I have never understood is the relationship between two or more ratings. The one that bothers me the most is Catch and Catch in traffic. How do those two relate to each other? For instance, if a WR has a CTH of 70, but a CIT of 99, how does that relate to the field? Is he more likely to catch the ball in traffic as opposed to the open field? Is it the average of the two, or is the CIT the only rating that matters, in those situations? Another one is awareness, and play recognition. If a player has 90 PRC, but only 50 AWR, how do they relate to each other, and what one comes in handy the most, when trying to make a play? There are others such as block strength and strength as well. But those are the two main ones that I have never quite understood. Like how can anyone have a better CIT then CTH? Or how can anyone have such high play recognition, but be pretty dumb overall when it comes to awareness. If anyone has the answers it would be much appreciated.

Im also wondering about this. I think that you would have to do some testing. Make a reciever that has 12 Catching but 99 CIT and if he hangs onto all the catches you throw to him when he is hit see what happens!

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by Claymaker52

One thing I have never understood is the relationship between two or more ratings. The one that bothers me the most is Catch and Catch in traffic. How do those two relate to each other? For instance, if a WR has a CTH of 70, but a CIT of 99, how does that relate to the field? Is he more likely to catch the ball in traffic as opposed to the open field? Is it the average of the two, or is the CIT the only rating that matters, in those situations? Another one is awareness, and play recognition. If a player has 90 PRC, but only 50 AWR, how do they relate to each other, and what one comes in handy the most, when trying to make a play? There are others such as block strength and strength as well. But those are the two main ones that I have never quite understood. Like how can anyone have a better CIT then CTH? Or how can anyone have such high play recognition, but be pretty dumb overall when it comes to awareness. If anyone has the answers it would be much appreciated.

First of all I did an advanced correlation using SPSS to determine the statistics of the rosters and attributes for ratings in Madden 11 for what I am about to say. The correlations between the attributes you are discussing are overall, very positive. That is to say that as one increases, the other increases. The catch rating is most often higher than the CIT rating. This is the basic catch animation. It is NOT an average of CIT and SPC. When you find a player with high CIT or SPC and a lower CTH rating I think you are noticing a flaw in how the devs rate players. It doesn't make sense to me or anyone else I know. The same is true for the AWR and PRC ratings. However, the AWR rating is used only for simmed games, or so they tell us. Which begs us to ask if a player can have such great recognition in a game then why on earth will he be so terrible in a simmed game? Doesn't make sense right?

The same goes for the STR and RBS/PBS ratings. You would think that logic would dictate that a STRONG player would have higher RBS/PBS. Once again, we see that the devs ignore logic of all things.

One thing I tried hard to correct in my ratings system was the lack of logic in the current ratings system. Players with good CTH ratings for instance will have good CIT and SPC ratings. Players with good STR ratings will have good PBS and RBS ratings. The opposite will also logically follow. Once you know the statistical correlations and distributions of the data you can create your own method that utilizes logic, statistical diversity, and a better overall ratings system.

Now all I need is a job offer from EA LOL!

[adembroski]

I'm not sure about Catch in Traffic vs. Catch, I'll look into it.

One I do know for sure is Throw on the Run vs. SAC, MAC, and DAC... Throw on the Run is a modifier... thus, it dictates how much of a penalty one takes for throwing on the run. I.E. having a 99 Throw on the Run and an 80 Short Accuracy does not mean that you throw more accurately on the run, only that you throw pretty much just as well on the run as stationary. Higher Throw on the Run better maintains accuracy.

I believe Catch in Traffic works the same way, but I'm not positive. Again, I'll look into it if I can find time today.

Run Block Strength and Run Block Footwork, I believe, are misnamed. Strength itself deals with the ability to get push or anchor, where as Run/Pass Block Strength is a counter to Power Moves and Block Shedding, where as Run/Pass Block Footwork is a counter to Finesse Moves.

Strength actually plays into a number of situations. It's one factor in releasing off of a press, for instance.

Awareness is used by CPU quarterbacks, linemen, backs, and tight ends selecting targets and knowing their blocking assignments, and a few other isolated areas. It isn't used for any player under human control, as the player's input replaces it. For most positions, Awareness has been replaced by a more specific rating, such as Zone Coverage, Man Coverage, Play Recognition, Pursuit, and Ball Carrier Vision. StatGen ("Sim Engine") uses awareness more than the game, but SuperSim uses more of the in-game relevant ratings.

[jvaccaro]

Quote: Originally Posted by adembroski

I'm not sure about Catch in Traffic vs. Catch, I'll look into it. One I do know for sure is Throw on the Run vs. SAC, MAC, and DAC... Throw on the Run is a modifier... thus, it dictates how much of a penalty one takes for throwing on the run. I.E. having a 99 Throw on the Run and an 80 Short Accuracy does not mean that you throw more accurately on the run, only that you throw pretty much just as well on the run as stationary. Higher Throw on the Run better maintains accuracy. I believe Catch in Traffic works the same way, but I'm not positive. Again, I'll look into it if I can find time today. Run Block Strength and Run Block Footwork, I believe, are misnamed. Strength itself deals with the ability to get push or anchor, where as Run/Pass Block Strength is a counter to Power Moves and Block Shedding, where as Run/Pass Block Footwork is a counter to Finesse Moves. Strength actually plays into a number of situations. It's one factor in releasing off of a press, for instance. Awareness is used by CPU quarterbacks, linemen, backs, and tight ends selecting targets and knowing their blocking assignments, and a few other isolated areas. It isn't used for any player under human control, as the player's input replaces it. For most positions, Awareness has been replaced by a more specific rating, such as Zone Coverage, Man Coverage, Play Recognition, Pursuit, and Ball Carrier Vision. StatGen ("Sim Engine") uses awareness more than the game, but SuperSim uses more of the in-game relevant ratings.

THIS is exactly what we need more of. Why EA keeps so much about madden's gameplay a secret, I'll never understand. I'd love a breakdown of how all the ratings interact!

adembroski, would you care to put your new expertise towards answering some other age-old madden mysteries..?
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...dden-10-a.html

[adembroski]

Quote: Originally Posted by jvaccaro

THIS is exactly what we need more of. Why EA keeps so much about madden's gameplay a secret, I'll never understand. I'd love a breakdown of how all the ratings interact! adembroski, would you care to put your new expertise towards answering some other age-old madden mysteries..? http://www.operationsports.com/forum...dden-10-a.html

I don't think it's a matter of things being a secret... it's a matter of being right. Between the number of people who work on the game, there are very few instances of one person knowing how all these things working, so when one person attempts to answer, invariably, the answer is less than 100% accurate.

I checked on Catch in Traffic; it seems it works independently of catch. To me, this makes perfect sense when you look at a player like Terrell Owens who, especially during his years with the 'Niners, made spectacular grabs in heavy traffic (see The Catch II), but would regularly drop wide open passes (see the rest of that game).

[Bballplaya72]

Quote: Originally Posted by adembroski

I don't think it's a matter of things being a secret... it's a matter of being right. Between the number of people who work on the game, there are very few instances of one person knowing how all these things working, so when one person attempts to answer, invariably, the answer is less than 100% accurate. I checked on Catch in Traffic; it seems it works independently of catch. To me, this makes perfect sense when you look at a player like Terrell Owens who, especially during his years with the 'Niners, made spectacular grabs in heavy traffic (see The Catch II), but would regularly drop wide open passes (see the rest of that game).

Makes perfect sense to me too. I'm assuming spectacular catch is the same, which first person that comes to mind is Brandon Lloyd. Before last year he would ROUTINELY drop easy passes, yet make some of the best catches you'd ever seen.

[guaps]

Quote: Originally Posted by adembroski

Between the number of people who work on the game, there are very few instances of one person knowing how all these things working, so when one person attempts to answer, invariably, the answer is less than 100% accurate.

I guess this statement kinda confirms that ratings in Madden are just a way to rank players and explains why the game can be so unpredictable at times.

Tiburon should just acknowledge that their ratings aren't working perfectly instead of adding new ratings and stretching the current ones. It's hardly a coherent ratings philosophy by any standard, if the programmers don't even know how stretching the ratings affects the gameplay that they are working on.