Blocking, tackling and running animations

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by LiquorLogic

Ian knew what it meant because he described it perfectly, and I honestly was afraid, for about a half of a second, that they wouldn't know what you meant by "bowling pin tackling" until Ian described it. You usually don't hear that term (bowling pin tackling) as much when describing this phenomenon. Type "bowling pin" tackling in the search box in youtube and you get a bunch of bowling videos. Type in "consecutive-hit tackling" and let the flaming begin.

Exactly, I should have said consecutive hit tackling, but you are right, Ian knew.

[jfsolo]

Quote: Originally Posted by DaveDQ

I would be very surprised if it is released in M12. If we look at how tackling has been addressed thus far, there's really not a sign there that says they are on their way to implementing consecutive hit tackles. In looking at how tackles are administered now, the developers make a choice to run an animation that shows a defender rolling off the tackle instead of engaging (when another defender is already engaged). So the question is, "Why do they implement that animation instead of implementing a tackling animation that shows a second defender also engaged in the scenario?" The only logical conclusion is that the engine/code/software won't allow it. These developers know football. They aren't clueless. They know what tackling really looks like, so we can't say they don't want it to happen or that they are purposefully excluding it. It has to be that the game simply can't do it.

This is how I feel as well. We all know that the game would be improved exponentially from both a gameplay and visual standpoint by the inclusion of these animations, so for them not to have included it yet, definitely says to me that they can't or really won't,-i.e., it's too cost prohibitive to gut/redo several core aspects of the game-, do it.

I've seen several people already saying that not having these tackles is a gamekiller for them. Those folks should just forget about Madden and NCAA for at least the rest of this generation. They're just going to make themselves needlessly upset if they harbor unrealistic(based on our knowledge of who is making the game) expectations about that kind of fundamental change being made to those games.

[Zombiecakes]

I think Pro-Tak was done wrong and needs a lot more depth.

It's way too pre-determined and limited.

They need to adjust it so that:

1. Additional tacklers can "Attach" to a ball-carrier from the direction they attack from and not get warped into a pre-set position that's not accurate to the direction from which they began contact from. You should NOT go from a flying dive right into a stand-up "Group Hug". You should "Attach" to the ball carrier from the point of contact and the method of tackle.

2. There is no more invisible wall. Don't let the tackling system block-out extra players, especially if they have a clear shot at the ball-carrier. Allow them to "pile on", at the torso/waist/legs levels. Not just having everyone in the "group hug" gang-tackle formation.

3. Allow the system to knock-off tacklers by other tacklers who take bad angles. So if one guy is in the middle of a tackle and another comes along and accidentally bumps that tackle, there is a chance he'll knock him OFF the tackle and release the ball-carrier.



But this all assuming it's even possible with the current gen Madden code. Pro-Tak, as-is, is just not accurate enough in simulating true-gang tackling tendencies and situations. It's way too limited. It needs to be fleshed out for different angles, different tackling methods and different body contact positions (torso/waist/legs).

That's where I would have focused my resources.

[big_larry]

This is why its going to take me 5 seconds of gameplay footage to decide if im going to buy this game this year. If the players move like they have for the past 11 years then im not buying this game, its time for them to update their physics engine or what ever they use for animations, hell All-Pro Football has better animations than Madden, and look at Backbreaker, come'on Madden!

[LiquorLogic]

Quote: Originally Posted by big_larry

This is why its going to take me 5 seconds of gameplay footage to decide if im going to buy this game this year. If the players move like they have for the past 11 years then im not buying this game, its time for them to update their physics engine or what ever they use for animations, hell All-Pro Football has better animations than Madden, and look at Backbreaker, come'on Madden!

I'm sort of the same way except is will take me 5 seconds to decide that I'm not buying this game this year. No consecutive-hit tackles is a deal breaker for me, but if they're in, that doesn't seal the deal for me. If consecutive-tackling is in, but punters and kickers can still hold their own on the offensive line, I'm not buying M12.

[trent11189]

If the engine can't do it, then it can't do it. Even so, there are a couple things that could be done to clean the whole issue up a bit.

1. no more warp around tackles. this is especially apparent on sacks. I'm talkin about when you hit stick the qb right in the face and your dude pauses, and slides around th the side and pulls him down. I know there are animations for a front-side tackle. and I know the game is capable of picking it up smoothly. It should happen every time.

2. If there is no way to give us true consecutive hit tackling then the next best thing is to add in a butt-load of new animations. We all know the engine can definitely support consecutive hit 2-man and 3-man tackles. Play ncaa 10 for 5 minutes and you'll see several. I'm talkin real sandwhich tackles where 1 guy hits him in the thigh and lifts his feet up off the ground, and a 2nd guy comes in and slams him in the back and the poor ballcarrier gets his guts smashed. they exist. on this engine. and they look smooth and awesome. put them in madden!

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by trent11189

2. If there is no way to give us true consecutive hit tackling then the next best thing is to add in a butt-load of new animations. We all know the engine can definitely support consecutive hit 2-man and 3-man tackles. Play ncaa 10 for 5 minutes and you'll see several. I'm talkin real sandwhich tackles where 1 guy hits him in the thigh and lifts his feet up off the ground, and a 2nd guy comes in and slams him in the back and the poor ballcarrier gets his guts smashed. they exist. on this engine. and they look smooth and awesome. put them in madden!

There might be a reason why they won't or can't put them in Madden. The NFL wants no part of vicious tackles, if this is what you are referring to.

If you are just talking about hard it tackles, I agree with you. The part where you mentioned "guts being smashed in", I didn't know how vicious you meant.

[KG]

I agree about the consecutive hit tackles being vital to my fball purchase next year. What's the point of all these animations if they can't interact with each other organically? The animations that do interact seem so scripted. I don't expect every animation to be smooth but I'd like to see something that resembles what i watch on Sundays.