DE/OLB or 3-4 Nose tackles

[SeahawkNMD]

Quote: Originally Posted by Exonerated

In HC09. There were 3-4,4-3 DEs. Teams that ran the 3-4 would only draft and sign 3-4 DEs. 4-3 DEs would receive a huge ratings decrease playing in a 3-4 scheme. Same thing for OLBs. I think its safe to assume that this is the case in M12

Was this always the case in HC09? There are some conversions that work out great and improve a players value. Guys Justin Smith going from 4-3 DE with the Bengals to 3-4 DE with the 49ers as well as Elvis Dumervil and Tamba Hali going from 4-3 DEs to 3-4 OLBs with coaching changes and putting up even better numbers. A lot of guys don't change schemes very well and should stick to one like Darnell Dockett who was a monster penetrating 3-tech and hasn't been as effective as a 5-tech.

It seems there should be some subjectivity to it with the conversions and some GMs could take a chance on a conversion guy with chance at success or failure.

[roninho]

Quote: Originally Posted by imskykid

I'm curious if we can edit not only ratings, but also height and weight? This would be helpful when a 3-4 CPU team drafts a DE that has the attributes of a run stuffer, but is not of prototypical size. Instead of shaking your head because the Steelers spend a 1st round pick on a 6'2" 245 lb DE to play in their 3-4, hopefully we can go in and edit him to be 6'5" 299 lbs to make things a little more realistic.

Maybe a stupid question, but does weight make a difference in M11? I was under the impression that it didn't do anything and that the performance of the d-liner was depending on his playing stats/skills, not his weight. At least it seemed so when one simmed in franchise (i play with the raiders, but also gm the steelers to have some competition and simply move OLB's to DE in their 3-4 and they seem to be performing quite nicely). If it indeed doesn't matter then the height/weight is of no importance in drafting (apart from that it looks stupid).

[JalenTigh]

Quote: Originally Posted by roninho

Maybe a stupid question, but does weight make a difference in M11? I was under the impression that it didn't do anything and that the performance of the d-liner was depending on his playing stats/skills, not his weight. At least it seemed so when one simmed in franchise (i play with the raiders, but also gm the steelers to have some competition and simply move OLB's to DE in their 3-4 and they seem to be performing quite nicely). If it indeed doesn't matter then the height/weight is of no importance in drafting (apart from that it looks stupid).

M11? I dont know really, your right... it did not seem like it. But they are on record about weight indeed mattering in M12.

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by Droopy03

...but one thing I didn't see or I missed is the DE that is able to be a OLB in a 3-4 defense coming out of college or the big NT for hte 3-4 defense. I have always been upset with not being able to draft a DE coming out of college and making the player a 3-4 OLB if he has the rush ability or agility. Does anyone know if this type of player is in the game becasue this is hugh for a 3-4 defense?

2 things that might make this possible:

-They mentioned physical attributes playing more of a role in ratings & potential, so maybe a guy with the size can make the transition.

-The pass rusher role may also transfer from DE to 3-4 OLB.

What I was hoping to hear about was a difference between weak & strong OLBs in name & abilities. For example, D. Ware almost always lines up on the weak side and rushes.

[mjhyankees]

wow...I never noticed this. I routinely switch guys by editing their position or just playing them at the position I want on the depth chart. So they don't progress when I do that?

[LiquorLogic]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

2 things that might make this possible: -They mentioned physical attributes playing more of a role in ratings & potential, so maybe a guy with the size can make the transition. -The pass rusher role may also transfer from DE to 3-4 OLB. What I was hoping to hear about was a difference between weak & strong OLBs in name & abilities. For example, D. Ware almost always lines up on the weak side and rushes.

Here's one way it might go: because of the passer rusher role, 3-4 OLBs, because of their pass rushing role or ability, will be able to make the switch to 4-3, as you're actually asking them to do less. They only have to be pass rushers. They don't have to cover. What I'm worried about is the ability of 4-3 DEs to convert to 3-4 outside backers. Ultimately, this will come down to the coverage ratings of 3-4 outside backers, and how those ratings progress. The fact the there is a pass rusher role tells me that we'll be able to at least convert 3-4 OLBs to 4-3 DEs.

Also, concerning the progression of coverage ratings for 3-4 OLBs, is this something that could be rectified with a patch or tuners sets ? That's assuming that 4-3 DEs won't be able to make the switch to the 3-4. For all we know, they can.

[LorenzoDC]

Quote: Originally Posted by LiquorLogic

Here's one way it might go: because of the passer rusher role, 3-4 OLBs, because of their pass rushing role or ability, will be able to make the switch to 4-3, as you're actually asking them to do less. They only have to be pass rushers. They don't have to cover. What I'm worried about is the ability of 4-3 DEs to convert to 3-4 outside backers. Ultimately, this will come down to the coverage ratings of 3-4 outside backers, and how those ratings progress. The fact the there is a pass rusher role tells me that we'll be able to at least convert 3-4 OLBs to 4-3 DEs. Also, concerning the progression of coverage ratings for 3-4 OLBs, is this something that could be rectified with a patch or tuners sets ? That's assuming that 4-3 DEs won't be able to make the switch to the 3-4. For all we know, they can.

But there's another element for base 4-3 packages. 4-3 LB's will tend to need more speed laterally and cover ability, because you now have 3 guys covering the short field in the base set rather than (possibly) 4 as in the 3-4.

True, the classic 4-3 SAM usually has more run stopping and occasional pass rushing duties on the blitz, but for a team looking to convert a smallish, fast college DE to OLB, progression in the ability to cover will matter, as will direction changing agility and awareness, a lot. They need better sideline to sideline speed, read and react ability.

[LiquorLogic]

Quote: Originally Posted by LorenzoDC

But there's another element for base 4-3 packages. 4-3 LB's will tend to need more speed laterally and cover ability, because you now have 3 guys covering the short field in the base set rather than (possibly) 4 as in the 3-4. True, the classic 4-3 SAM usually has more run stopping and occasional pass rushing duties on the blitz, but for a team looking to convert a smallish, fast college DE to OLB, progression in the ability to cover will matter, as will direction changing agility and awareness, a lot. They need better sideline to sideline speed, read and react ability.

Yeah, but 3-4 OLBs and 4-3 DEs are pass rushers. 4-3 linebackers aren't really a part of the equation in this thread. There are many inside linebackers that could play in the 4-3 as a middle linebacker. The outside linebackers in 3-4 always end up putting their hand on the ground when they convert to the 4-3, they don't play outside linebacker in the 4-3.