Will Ratings Matter for Offensive Line Play?

[pistonica]

From the videos of maddenmatrix on youtube...i've seen that the off-line is much improved this year...the pocket is much more resistant...So it's good news !

[tatmanfish]

The rating matter to some extent IMO, but not as much as they should.

I use the Bucs and RG Joseph is a run blocker. His best atributes show as much. Yet naerly every single time I call a run against the CPU, Joseph gets blown up. It doesnt matter how good or bad the DT is or what his ratings are, he gets blown up. The only chance I have running towards Joseph is if my FB picks up the block after Joseph.

Now when I play a User controlled opponent the outcome is a litlle more favorable for me, but its still way more inconsistent than Joseph plays in real life and what his rating would suggest.

I also agree that block shedding seems to be the most important rating for the D-line.

The biggest problem I see with the current interaction besides how the ratings work together is the angles the DEs take, and the ability of the DTs to bull rush.

DEs set the edge. They try to get upfield to either contain the run, or get outside of the T to get after the passer. This is what creates a pocket. Pockets rarely exist in the last couple Maddens unless youre usering a DE to help create one against your opponent. If they could fix this, it would be a huge difference in the pass and run game. Its hard in the NFL to consistently run to the outside because of this, but in Madden its the run of choice, especially with a speed back. Its so effective because the DE never gets upfield or never tries to set the edge.

DTs in most schemes(1 Gap) either try to split the blocks or bull rush them into the backfield. In Madden, they get stood up on both run and pass and the bull rush is rarely seen if at all. The only option they have is to beat there guy much like a DE would. On pass plays, the O-line cant go further than 5 yards downfield until after the ball is thrown. This causes them to stand up a little more and not fire off the ball quite the same as a run. This is where the bull rush or spliting defenders becomes more improtant as it moves guys around in the pocket much like real life. In Madden, the pocket rarely moves because most DTs are never able to bull rush. The only time you really see it happen in Madden is when a guy like Suh uses his moves to get around a guy. You rarely see a guy use his stregnth to beat a guy.

I think if they fixed the DE angles and improved the bull rush for DTs(mainly on pass plays) it would be all the difference in the world and even if the ratings dont quite work they way they should, the animations would give a more realistic effect especially in the passing game.

Right now, it seems the DTs only excel in run game game. The O-line doesnt fire forward and has the same stand up animation that they do in the pass game. Hard for an O-linemen to run block when hes just standing up and not trying to push his guy back. I think they need two distinct animations for the O-line to run/pass block. Yes some guys will get stood up or pushed back when run blocking.

these are all minimal things asside from the ratings that I think would make a huge difference and may even make the rating mean a little more than they do now.

[guaps]

Quote: Originally Posted by pistonica

From the videos of maddenmatrix on youtube...i've seen that the off-line is much improved this year...the pocket is much more resistant...So it's good news !

From what I've seen so far in the Madden 12 videos from e3, I'll state that line play looks just as broken as previous years. Sure, it looks different visually, but gameplay-wise I can't see any improvements.

I still see no pocket forming - offensive tackles still slide into position, because Madden still doesn't have kick-slide animation (or don't trigger them?), and interior offensive linemen just stand stationary waiting for someone to block.

What I've seen on the e3 videos is that a 3 man rush is just as likely to get a sack as a 5 man rush, because it all comes down to one-on-one match-ups. Some plays elite pass rushers, like Peppers or Suggs, get caught in 2 or 3 stationary pushing animations with offensive tackles instead of using their momentum and leverage to get to the QB. On other plays the 3-4 defensive ends runs right past the pass protection. 3-4 defensive ends still look like they're able to get 15-20 sacks per season

[GGEden]

A simple way to test M12's OL, whether improved or same-same, is to rush 1-3 DL, drop everyone back, and if you get a bunch of OL just standing there blocking nothing, it will indicate OL is same-same.

Because it will prove yet again the whole OL is one set animation, not five different animations. One whole animation = nano exploitable, lacking adaptive ability, non-dynamic.

[ryan36]

Quote: Originally Posted by GGEden

A simple way to test M12's OL, whether improved or same-same, is to rush 1-3 DL, drop everyone back, and if you get a bunch of OL just standing there blocking nothing, it will indicate OL is same-same. Because it will prove yet again the whole OL is one set animation, not five different animations. One whole animation = nano exploitable, lacking adaptive ability, non-dynamic.

I never thought of Madden O-lines as being one whole animation, that's a good point.

[CRMosier_LM]

I doubt its one animation

[jHorns]

Quote: Originally Posted by GGEden

A simple way to test M12's OL, whether improved or same-same, is to rush 1-3 DL, drop everyone back, and if you get a bunch of OL just standing there blocking nothing, it will indicate OL is same-same. Because it will prove yet again the whole OL is one set animation, not five different animations. One whole animation = nano exploitable, lacking adaptive ability, non-dynamic.

that sounds about right. i have some videos of my own on youtube. currently uploading one on madden 11 now. check my channel out my username is jtxstud

[carnalnirvana]

the problem with the Ol IMO is the lack of logic on blocking technique.... i am not an expert in OL/DL technique but when i look at games and how teams handle rushes and look at maddden it see the difference

guard play- what i would rather is the guards try to steer the DT's to an angle to create the pocket while giving ground making the DT seem successful but staying between him and the QB, success for the DT will be to push that guard back into the Qb face causing disruption...

currently IN MADDEN the guards try to hold up the DT in his tracks giving the DT the chance to spin/swim him instantly, this holding your ground technique can work for blitzers who are weaker /weigh less.... i may be wrong but this technique seems stupid when handling 320+lb DL... GUARDS needs to be programmed to move around more WHEN ENGAGED...