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When will we get a realistic pocket and/or blocking schemes?

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Old 06-23-2011, 02:19 PM   #1
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When will we get a realistic pocket and/or blocking schemes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNsN__UhOKw

This is Madden 12 compared to APF 2K8:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tskXCnvTfLA


Madden 11 clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9JGcFI5oJw


Why can't we get a better QB pocket and blocking scheme?
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Old 06-23-2011, 02:21 PM   #2
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Re: When will we get a realistic pocket and/or blocking schemes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo6911
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNsN__UhOKw

This is Madden 12 compared to APF 2K8:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tskXCnvTfLA


Madden 11 clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9JGcFI5oJw


Why can't we get a better QB pocket and blocking scheme?
I agree with the overall sentiment.. Pocket doesn't seem super accurate in Madden, but to be honest I don't think it really was in APF that much either.
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Old 06-23-2011, 02:33 PM   #3
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Re: When will we get a realistic pocket and/or blocking schemes?

Having seen hundreds of football games, I've figured out that I don't know what a "realistic pocket" is.

Seriously, the pocket isn't a highly structured element with properties that are clearly defined. If you pour water into a glass - ANY GLASS - the water will always take the shape of the container. The 'pocket' is the water, while the blockers surrounding the pocket is the glass. Let's get artsy. The pocket is the negative space created by blockers. A pocket in your pants is formed by the fabric, but the pocket is actually the empty space the fabric creates.

In summary: A pocket = empty space. The idea that the empty space created by blockers isn't 'realistic' doesn't really make sense. In football games there's an ideal pocket and then there's the one blockers actually create.

Not every pocket is the same, some have holes in them.

Later
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Old 06-23-2011, 02:34 PM   #4
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Re: When will we get a realistic pocket and/or blocking schemes?

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Originally Posted by bkrich83
I agree with the overall sentiment.. Pocket doesn't seem super accurate in Madden, but to be honest I don't think it really was in APF that much either.
What about Backbreaker?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6qBq8rzADQ

Anything is better than what we have. It seems Madden 11-12's answer to the QB pocket is by nerfing us with an auto drop back.
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Old 06-23-2011, 02:35 PM   #5
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Re: When will we get a realistic pocket and/or blocking schemes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNT713
Having seen hundreds of football games, I've figured out that I don't know what a "realistic pocket" is.

Seriously, the pocket isn't a highly structured element with properties that are clearly defined. If you pour water into a glass - ANY GLASS - the water will always take the shape of the container. The 'pocket' is the water, while the blockers surrounding the pocket is the glass. Let's get artsy. The pocket is the negative space created by blockers. A pocket in your pants is formed by the fabric, but the pocket is actually the empty space the fabric creates.

In summary: A pocket = empty space. The idea that the empty space created by blockers isn't 'realistic' doesn't really make sense. In football games there's an ideal pocket and then there's the one blockers actually create.

Not every pocket is the same, some have holes in them.

Later
I think you missed his point, and the overall long standing issue with pass protection in Madden.
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Old 06-23-2011, 02:37 PM   #6
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Re: When will we get a realistic pocket and/or blocking schemes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo6911
What about Backbreaker?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6qBq8rzADQ

Anything is better than what we have. It seems Madden 11-12's answer to the QB pocket is by nerfing us with an auto drop back.

I actually like the auto dropback. Particularly with QB's having their own dropbacks. Imo, the autodropback is far more realistic.

That being said there was absolutely nothing about backbreaker I found remotely realistic. Particularly in the trenches.
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Old 06-23-2011, 02:44 PM   #7
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Re: When will we get a realistic pocket and/or blocking schemes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNT713
Having seen hundreds of football games, I've figured out that I don't know what a "realistic pocket" is.

Seriously, the pocket isn't a highly structured element with properties that are clearly defined. If you pour water into a glass - ANY GLASS - the water will always take the shape of the container. The 'pocket' is the water, while the blockers surrounding the pocket is the glass. Let's get artsy. The pocket is the negative space created by blockers. A pocket in your pants is formed by the fabric, but the pocket is actually the empty space the fabric creates.

In summary: A pocket = empty space. The idea that the empty space created by blockers isn't 'realistic' doesn't really make sense. In football games there's an ideal pocket and then there's the one blockers actually create.

Not every pocket is the same, some have holes in them.

Later
I like this philosophical discussion, but I think folks generally get that idea. The problem is that the form of the "negative space created by blockers" is not nearly as dynamic in Madden as it is in other games or in real life. The shape of Madden's pocket is far too predictable. You get a very short list of results: the patty-cake standoff, the quick shoulder dip by a DL in a 1-1, and perhaps a couple of minor permutations of these.

The upfield push that shapes pockets in games with good speed rushers isn't there, so neither is that sort of pocket. The inward push that shapes pockets in games where there are strong, aggressive DT isn't there, so neither is that sort of pocket. I could go on, but you get the point.

To the OP's question, I don't think we'll see it in Madden. I've decided to adjust my expectations on this issue and accept that upfield rushers don't exist and that sack production will just come from different positions and through different techniques than what I'd prefer. I'm narrativizing this as a shift in the way the game is played, which happens all the time in real life
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Old 06-23-2011, 02:52 PM   #8
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Re: When will we get a realistic pocket and/or blocking schemes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNT713
Having seen hundreds of football games, I've figured out that I don't know what a "realistic pocket" is.

Seriously, the pocket isn't a highly structured element with properties that are clearly defined. If you pour water into a glass - ANY GLASS - the water will always take the shape of the container. The 'pocket' is the water, while the blockers surrounding the pocket is the glass. Let's get artsy. The pocket is the negative space created by blockers. A pocket in your pants is formed by the fabric, but the pocket is actually the empty space the fabric creates.

In summary: A pocket = empty space. The idea that the empty space created by blockers isn't 'realistic' doesn't really make sense. In football games there's an ideal pocket and then there's the one blockers actually create.

Not every pocket is the same, some have holes in them.

Later
The olineman are standing in place and stamping their feet for the entire play in the Madden 11 vid. We can talk about how a pocket should form all day, but the game should be able to have the lineman act more realistically by now.

The way the pocket forms may be debatable from play to play but I can't think of another current sports game where characters look as stupid as that either.
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