Changing packages... A huge part of the NFL... A huge part of Madden 12???

[spit_bubble]

Player packages, personnel subs... They are a big part of the NFL... To spell HBs, create different matchups, etc. And yet they don't seem to be a part of Madden 12, at least from what I can tell. The issue is twofold:

1. Changing packages is way too clumsy. There is an option to change packages on the playcalling screen using the R-stick. If it is anything like the one in NCAA, then it is pretty much useless. In NCAA 11, and the NCAA 12 demo, scrolling through the different packages doesn't work well at all. It hangs up and doesn't always register the input, and on top of that you have to scroll through a number of different options to find the one you want. So doing what should be relatively simple, like quickly subbing out your HB, becomes way more complicated than it should be and even puts you at risk of a delay of game penalty.

2. The AI's use of different packages... Does it even exist? I haven't played Madden much in recent years, so I don't know. But the way the NFL has evolved in recent times, it seems to be much more about personnel match ups than ever before. I realize this kind of thing could become very complex to program for, yet at the same time this is perhaps the single thing that makes football so great, that is the strategy of it.

I bring this topic up for discussion, and with the hopes that this layer of depth sees it's way into Madden if it's not in the game already.

I realize a lot of folks probably don't care too much about this aspect of the game, but I'm guessing there are others like me who would love to see a quick and easy way to sub in different personnel... As well as the AI making use of different packages to give users a more in depth and formidable opponent.

Please forgive me if this topic has been addressed, as I haven't been paying all that close attention to Madden 12 news... I did a forum search and couldn't find anything specifically addressing this subject, so I thought I'd start a new thread.

[Senator Palmer]

Hey, I care about this, a whole lot. In Madden, though, the r-stick is a lot more responsive than in NCAA. Don't know why that is, but it's really easy to flip through packages. The two problems, as you noted, is that the CPU doesn't use them unless it comes to the auto-sub feature tied to fatigue -- and it's too clumsy to do it manually in the game. Although, in recent years, they've attempted to remedy this by having stuff built into certain formations.

The Falcons when it goes to 4-Wide Spread, Tony Gonzalez is default lined up in the slot. The Saints, when they go to Empty 5 Wide, the 1 RB is defaulted to line up wide. Now it would be better if this programming were more extensive, because it's usually Thomas out wide instead of the natural choice, Bush.

But I have been longing for the days of customized formation subs where I can set them up before I even play a game as you touched on. NCAA scratches the surface last year, but I was disappointed that you could only tweak default packages and not sub packages. I want to go deep. I want to create a 4 DE rush package like the Giants' NASCAR package, or I want to do like Jim Schwartz used to do with Haynesworth, where he would move him out to end on passing downs and slide Vanden Bosch inside. There are so many nuances that should be default programmed into a particular coaches' style and I think some of these new Sub formations are getting there, but I want my customizable packages. Doing it in the middle of a game against the playclock, instead of before, while I'm gameplanning, isn't realistic.

Haven't heard much about it, and haven't seen it in any of the menus yet, so my hope is dimming, but I'm still holding out hope. I need my packages, EA. I need my packages.

[spit_bubble]

Hopefully it's something they are working on.

The way to change packages needs to be a lot quicker... Like the press of a few buttons at most: one to bring up a menu, and another to choose the personnel... Or maybe even have it be the first thing you choose on the play calling screen. Scrolling through them is way too slow, regardless of whether or not the scrolling is smooth and registering right.

As for the AI, maybe they could tie it into the coaches... With some coaches being more creative than others, and more or less willing to give different looks. It gets tricky, and is just another thing that could wrong. Still, I think they could probably even keep it somewhat simple and still have it add some depth and realism...

Like I say, it's a big part of the league right now, and Madden's current mantra is to be true to the game.

[H4wduk3n]

I've been thinking about doing something like this through formation subs...it's limited in that is always the personnel for that formation until you manually sub them out or go to a package within the formation...but it's a start?

[Joe Strange]

I wish we had two ways of calling plays. One with the regular formation and the regular personnel just like it is now. But a second where you pick your personnel package first, and then all the formations that can be run with that personnel. Give me the ability to fully customize my formation packages, and I would die a happy man.

[spit_bubble]

Just noticed in some of the videos there is a "sub" button for Madden on the play calling screen... The "RB/R1" button... And it's not in NCAA...

What all can you do with that? And does the AI use it as well?

Like I say, I haven't played Madden much in recent years.

[Palo20]

Quote: Originally Posted by spit_bubble

Just noticed in some of the videos there is a "sub" button for Madden on the play calling screen... The "RB/R1" button... And it's not in NCAA... What all can you do with that? And does the AI use it as well? Like I say, I haven't played Madden much in recent years.

At the playcall screen you can manually make subs at any position. These subs stay forever in Franchise.

I would like to just see a "reset" button for each formation. Since subs last forever, the reset button would allow you to mix up personnel but then you can always go back to the default personnel.

[Palo20]

Couple things I've done to make the AI play more to their style:

1. Create gameplans for them

I created distinct playbooks for each team. Colts primarily rush 4 against me, run a lot of cover 2. Raiders use a lot of man coverage, single high safeties. Steelers run their zone blitzes, etc. Steelers also use 4 LBs at all times (even Nickel), so I made sure their Nickel Defense was primarily 2-4-5, and some 1-5-5.

2. Make formation subs for the AI at the beginning of the season

**Start the game, make all the subs you want for each team. Quit the game, save franchise. All of the package changes will be saved.**

I went through each team and made some team specific subs. Some key ones:

3-4 teams: Usually use OLBs as DEs in Nickel Normal. Subbed in the proper pass rushers.

Giants: Nickel D had Osi, Kiwanuka, Tuck, and Pierre-Paul on the DLine. Subbed Steve Smith into the slot in all '3 WR' formations.

Cowboys: Subbed Miles Austin into the slot in all '3 WR' formations.

For Senator: Bengals had Atkins in at DT for Nickel (Dunlap later in the season too). Changed Peko to FB, subbed him in on Goalline at FB, then changed him back to DT.

Saints: Toward the end of the year, Malcolm Jenkins was the starting FS, but in Nickel situations, he covered the slot and Sharper played FS. I made this change.

I went through pretty much each team and made these changes.