A Discussion for the OS Madden 2012 Reviewers

[TombSong]

This is not to a challenge to question integrity or anger anyone. Its to get a GOOD, HONEST review of the game on aspects that are important to this community. I feel (sometimes) we get reviews based mainly on whatever the Devs have hyped up to be new features or supposed game improvements but the important stuff is not mentioned. Its a football game, I think the football stuff needs to be examined. That's why we buy the game.

What do we do in football games ?
As players:
Read, React, Run, Pass, Catch, Tackle.

As Coaches/coordinators:
Dream up strategy/Call plays to enact strategy.

Review mindset: How does Madden handle these real world football events in the game ?



As you review the game do you check to see and comment on:

For the people who play mostlu CPU games:

1. As a test what happens when you run the same play 10 times in a row(on offense or defense) against the cpu ? Does it make proper adjustments to counter this play ? How well does the CPU adjust to you blitzing every play ? CPU clock management, Style of play in regards to the team it is using. (Does the CPU run the team as much as possible as the real life team does ?) Here you are testing the CPU logic as a offensive and defensive coordinator of its team. Shouldnt that be important in a football game ?

For the online Peeps:

2. On defense do the zone defense plays actually defend the zones the defenders are suppose to be defending ? If you have a defender in the flats can passes still be completed there 50% or more of the time ? How do the LB's play their hook zones ? Are they adjusting their depth according to whats happening as the play develops ? Are they standing in place watching the WR's catch balls in front of them ?

Do the routes that suppose to defeat certain coverages do just that or are defenders coming off their assignments to play areas or defend routes they should not reasonably be able to defend ?


3. Are inappropriate animations being played out by WR's/DB's that take them out of the play ? Are the animations taking control away from you in being able to make a play on the ball ?


4. Are WR's still not responding to balls thrown at them ? There are times you can throw to a wide open WR, only to see him act as thought he is not aware the ball has been thrown and continues running his route while the ball fly's over his head.


5. Has man alignment been fixed. How well do the defenders try to get matched up with their man assignment pres-snap. Have the devs given us more pre-snap looks to disguise coverage so their ain't so much micro management to do ?

6. How has player movement, warping, Super leaps, been addressed as compared to previous games ?

7. How do the player ratings mesh with the skills the players display on the field ? Example: Are 70 press rated DB's holding 90 Beat Press rated WR's at the LOS for long periods of time ? Are 80 Speed/Agil rated LBs covering 90 Speed/Agil rated WR's with no problems ?

8. Have special teams been improved(blocking) ? Has the Replay Review been improved ?

9. Has ball trajectory and speed of the ball on deep passes been improved in any way ? How is a 90+ rated QB's passes differ from a 80 or lowered rated passer in terms of pass speed and trajectory ? Do the ratings matter at all ?

10. When I run my user controlled player into a tackle in progress do I have any impact on what happens or do I still just go into a fall down animation ?

11. The whole O line D line interaction. Run blocking, Blitz pickups, What pass protection audibles have they included ? Do they work ? Do screens/draws/reverses/play action work against defenses they are designed to beat ? What are the counters to each and do they work ?

12. How is the WR/DB interaction on deep passes ? Are DB's mirroring WR routes ? What has been done to advance this area of game play.

13. How easy/hard fast/slow is it to get personnel(subs/formation subs) in and out of the game ? Can I send a man in motion and shift a HB/FB/TE (like in real life....and AP2k8) How easy/Hard is it to make adjustments/Hot routes and are they editable ?



These and other questions(presentation stuff/Franchise stuff) I think need to be addressed in reviews to tell how good a game plays as well as how is it advancing and bringing features to the game that let us do what we see done in real football games. It seems most reviewers do a GREAT job of discusiing the developers Hype points for that years game but ignore/gloss over the fine details that become the real issues of why most like/dislike the game.

Am I off base here ?

[Senator Palmer]

This is pretty much everything I look for in a review and it's tougher and tougher to find ones with this kind of meat.

Quote:

5. Has man alignment been fixed. How well do the defenders try to get matched up with their man assignment pres-snap. Have the devs given us more pre-snap looks to disguise coverage so their ain't so much micro management to do ?

This is one of the inexplicable things to me. It used to be automatic that your defenders knew their matchups. All of a sudden, a few seasons ago, if a team went to any type of WR twin formation against man, the corner would stay on the other side of the formation with a LB trying to match up against the receiver. Where they do that at?

[RogueHominid]

X 1000!

The simple sequence you mentioned of reading, reacting, running, passing, and catching could provide a wonderful template for reviewers to offer SPECIFIC and ORGANIZED comments on the game. Too often comments from reviewers are vague and disorganized.

I bet we could whip up a fairly well organized document encompassing these concerns. For example:

Running:
1) How does the OL handle 43 and 34 fronts respectively when confronted with these plays: dive, counter, stretch, pitch, draw? Which DL/LB are targeted in those plays and to what effect?
2) Do the CPU defenders pursue correctly, filling lanes?
3) How responsive is the HB to cuts, and what specific types of tackle animations do you see on contact?

Passing:
1) How does the CPU OL respond to both man and zone blitzes. Is it possible to execute either with success without hot-routing, or does the OL play psychic?
2) Can the CPU QB be fooled by coverages and blitzes, or does he play psychically?
3) Do human and CPU zones appear to cover the appropriate routes consistently (this would be tested by running plays known to attack specific zone calls)?
4) Do human and CPU defenders react to the ball in realistic ways, or are there cheats for the CPU such as warping and jumping?

Hot Routes/Strategy Adjustments:
1) Which defenders, exactly, are blocked with line slants to left, center and right vs. both 34 and 43 fronts?
2) How does the CPU AI respond to each of the various hot routes available for WR/TE?
3) Do man align and shading work properly?
4) etc.

There would be more stuff, obviously, but putting it in an organized framework like that might make it easier to review coherently. You could even get specific like: when examining the cover 2 zone, run a streak with the SE or FL and see if/how the S reacts to the ball/WR; when examining the cover 2, run a TE or slot seam and see how the FS reacts to the receiver.

Reviewers have to do other things, like see if the game is fun or not, but some concrete answers to specific questions would certainly maximize the value of the reviews, which I think have been unexceptional of late.

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by Senator Palmer

This is pretty much everything I look for in a review and it's tougher and tougher to find ones with this kind of meat. This is one of the inexplicable things to me. It used to be automatic that your defenders knew their matchups. All of a sudden, a few seasons ago, if a team went to any type of WR twin formation against man, the corner would stay on the other side of the formation with a LB trying to match up against the receiver. Where they do that at?

It seems to me and it's early so forgive me if I am off but defenses particularly NFL defenses don't do this much anymore. They rarely if ever bring the CB across the formation. They simply adjust the called coverage or make some sort of automatic coverage conversion. I am talking about when they are in base defense for the most part.

[TheShizNo1]

Great stuff guys. I'd love to see these things addressed in review. I don't think I've seen a review of a football game go in that much detail.

[TombSong]

Quote: Originally Posted by bkrich83

It seems to me and it's early so forgive me if I am off but defenses particularly NFL defenses don't do this much anymore. They rarely if ever bring the CB across the formation. They simply adjust the called coverage or make some sort of automatic coverage conversion. I am talking about when they are in base defense for the most part.

What we need in Madden is a way to adjust your play call so that you get the match ups you want without a whole lot of hassle. I have been in man to man defenses only to see someone send a person in motion and the guy covering him does not get himself positioned to man up on him or you flip the defense to try to correct the match up and it still does not align right. It gets pretty frustrating. Sometimes certain formations without motion, the defense does not line up right. This needs to be discussed I think.

[aceoye]

this is what the reviews should be based off every single year, and if its the same stuff happening review it the same..to an extent reviews have some of this stuff in it but overall its like the reviews are taking a toll by stuff that is less meaningful to the actual core gameplay experience.

[Senator Palmer]

Quote: Originally Posted by bkrich83

It seems to me and it's early so forgive me if I am off but defenses particularly NFL defenses don't do this much anymore. They rarely if ever bring the CB across the formation. They simply adjust the called coverage or make some sort of automatic coverage conversion. I am talking about when they are in base defense for the most part.

Hmm, how 'bout that? So, there isn't true man coverage from a base defense against I formation WR twin formations? Learn something new everyday. Good nugget of info. I'll have to go to the film.

I know I have seen it defended with zones where an LB slides over with safety help over the top, or a safety just drops down, but I did not know that there were never any man calls against it.