Progression passing... I think it could work... It might even be awesome...

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by Argooos

This is very similar to the way I envision passing in Madden: Decide your primary read pre-snap (who your QB is going to be looking at after the ball is snapped - if you select no one then your QB is looking at no receiver in particular). That receiver's icon is highlighted (or everyone else's is greyed-out) and while that receiver is selected he is the only one you can throw to with your full accuracy. You can still throw to other receivers as normal, but depending on how good the quarterback is, the throw will likely be off-target. You can then switch to a different receiver by pressing that receiver's button while holding the trigger (or some other button). As long as you have a receiver selected, the defensive players may move towards that receiver and jump the route - but this of course allows you to look off your receiver and go for a big gain. As far as I can tell, that's pretty much how real quarterbacks do it. They pick one player to look at when the play starts, then they move on to the next read if the first one is covered. Good Madden players will be able to go through several reads, while worst players will probably not be able to go through their receivers as quickly.

Exactly how many reads does a NFL QB have in real time. One and if lucky 2, so this would be very realistic, and it should be a option. This way for those that can not handle the pressure of actually play QB can play with the traditional format.

Quote: Originally Posted by mrprice33

Isn't most of this just the vision cone from Madden 06? I thought that system was realistic, but cumbersome. Maybe if the right stick was used to snap from receiver to receiver instead of slowly sliding your vision from side to side?

BINGO!!! Exactly how the vision cone worked, but with out the cone on the field. Unfortunately many played with the vision cone the wrong way. They chose to his the right stick, and that made it more difficult. Using the right trigger was the best way to use it.

All they had to do was remove the cone, and just let the icon appear. It would have been perfect.

[TNT713]

Quote: Originally Posted by Argooos

Alas there is but one football game out there with NFL rosters, so everyone, both players who want a simple button-pushing game and those who want to experience an actual football video game, must play the same game. Your solution to the problem is to simply bow to the fact that most video game players don't care about playing actual football. Those of us who would prefer a much more realistic experience just have to take what we can get in that regard, since we are not the target market for the game. Get that - people who want a proper football game are not the target market for a football game. My solution is to include an option that would make passing more realistic. The default mode would stay as-is, as would online unless there was a large public outcry to change it. Your solution keeps the majority happy, while keeping the minority unsatisfied. My solution keep the majority satisfied, and satisfies large numbers of the minority. Which solution sounds better to you?

That's just the thing... How will tapping a button several times make passing more realistic? Much like QB Vision it won't accomplish the goal or making passing more realistic, it only gives you more crap to do before actually making the throw.

You're still going to have to make a read, select at receiver, and make a throw... The difference is one of us will have one button to press after making the read, while the other player is cycling like a mad-man trying to press a button up to 5 times before his receiver gets covered up.

Sounds like a good idea, but it's impractical...

Later

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

I liked the cone personally.

1. It made having guys with high awareness worth it because guys like Peyton and Warner, you could pretty much watch all of your receivers at once, whereas someone like Vick you had to use the RT+button to snap to the receiver you wanted.

2. You could look off safeties and aim your pump fakes.

3. You couldn't run around behind the line of scrimmage and throw it all the way across the field anymore like you can now.
Those three things alone made it a great feature for me.

[Argooos]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

That's just the thing... How will tapping a button several times make passing more realistic? Much like QB Vision it won't accomplish the goal or making passing more realistic, it only gives you more crap to do before actually making the throw. You're still going to have to make a read, select at receiver, and make a throw... The difference is one of us will have one button to press after making the read, while the other player is cycling like a mad-man trying to press a button up to 5 times before his receiver gets covered up. Sounds like a good idea, but it's impractical... Later

In real life, QBs have pre-determined reads that they cycle through. I am proposing an idea that makes Madden QBs do the same thing.
The current method may involve reads if that is how the player chooses to play, but that's entirely in their head and not represented in the game at all.
And you're trying to say both systems are equally realistic?
Also, I'm still not getting where you get the idea of pressing a button 5 times? Under my system, if you throw to your first read, you only press one button after the snap, just like the current system. If you want to switch to your second read, that's two button presses (once with the trigger held and once without). If you want to move on to your 3rd read, that's another two button presses. In real life this is how far most QBs make it before they are either sacked, choose to run, or are forced to throw it away. So 5 buttons being pressed would likely be the maximum, not the norm. Also keep in mind this would be an "advanced" mode, so the people who can't handle pressing 5 buttons because their brains can only handle one would never have to use it. I suppose you also think they should remove all the separate buttons for various running back moves and just use the right stick instead. Otherwise, heck, on a long run you may have to press 5 buttons!

[larkyyyyy]

This feature would never work. Name me one succesful football game that was not using the traditional passing. Would be a waste of time for the devs instead using it on a real feature, not a gimmick.

[Argooos]

Making the game more realistic is a gimmick?

I always hear people saying how gameplay is the most important thing, and that gameplay needs to be improved before all else. Then when a suggestion is offered that would improve gameplay, people want to keep things as is.

[TNT713]

Quote: Originally Posted by Argooos

In real life, QBs have pre-determined reads that they cycle through. I am proposing an idea that makes Madden QBs do the same thing. The current method may involve reads if that is how the player chooses to play, but that's entirely in their head and not represented in the game at all. And you're trying to say both systems are equally realistic? Also, I'm still not getting where you get the idea of pressing a button 5 times? Under my system, if you throw to your first read, you only press one button after the snap, just like the current system. If you want to switch to your second read, that's two button presses (once with the trigger held and once without). If you want to move on to your 3rd read, that's another two button presses. In real life this is how far most QBs make it before they are either sacked, choose to run, or are forced to throw it away. So 5 buttons being pressed would likely be the maximum, not the norm. Also keep in mind this would be an "advanced" mode, so the people who can't handle pressing 5 buttons because their brains can only handle one would never have to use it. I suppose you also think they should remove all the separate buttons for various running back moves and just use the right stick instead. Otherwise, heck, on a long run you may have to press 5 buttons!

Like I said before, I understand the goal of pressing buttons to cycle receivers AND I imagine this would be a great way to cycle receivers in a football game - just not Madden.

For one, we already know that Madden fans prefer to be efficient as evidenced by the Quick/Normal passing of 2003. Next we know that the throw takes priority as evidenced by the backlash of QB Vision and the cumbersome interface it came with.

As far as the realism aspect of this system, there's one advantage. The defense would know which receiver the QB is targeting. Beyond this, there's not much realistic about it as the QB is looking at the receiver. In real life QB's read the defense, because they already know where the receiver is going to be.

2nd, QB's don't cycle through receivers in a particular order per play, they cycle through receivers based on the defense. If a QB reads the safety nearest the middle of the field, his progression could take him left, right, high, or low depending on where the safety takes his first steps. In essence, his progression is related to what he reads in the defense, not some mechanized step by step process...

IMO, a button cycling mechanic would appeal to a very small group of people who want their football with a heaping helping of vanilla. It oversimplifies the game to a point that the depth would be lost and the idea that frantic "button pushing" revealed the victor.

The beauty of Madden is in the FREEDOM to make reads based on your own progression. It's true, players that understand real life progression have an advantage. But it's not an advantage that requires the reinstitution of the 20 year old Tecmo Bowl mechanic - especially since we already know that based on the habits of Madden fans, it would be rarely used.

Simply put... Fans of the football genre might think this a great idea. MADDEN players won't. Now we can control velocity, trajectory, and our intended receiver with only ONE BUTTON. You can't more efficiently deliver a pass any other way. Dare I say - in the PASSING GAME - the pass is the most important part. The mental progression that occurs before the throw happens in our heads.

Once again, I'll reiterate this is a GREAT IDEA for a football game - but it's not a good idea for Madden.

Later

[spit_bubble]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

...QB's don't cycle through receivers in a particular order per play, they cycle through receivers based on the defense...

Good point. Locking the user into a certain progression wouldn't really work.

I still like the idea of a target based passing system, where the user could flick the right stick at a receiver to highlight him, then press a button to throw. Imagine this set up:

Thumb on the left stick to control the feet. Thumb on the right stick to target a receiver. R1 button to pass the ball. R2 to pump fake.

No vision cone. No Tecmo Bowl style cycling. Just a quick flick in the direction of the receiver to target him. And if two receivers are in the same line of sight, another quick flick to target the receiver further down field.

For QBs with low awareness, you could limit the number of times they are allowed to switch targets. And for QBs with really low awareness, rookies especially, only let them target one receiver per play.

For QBs with higher awareness, they would be able to target receivers without any limitations, so that they could look off safeties and deliver pump fakes.

This could easily work, and would be a nice addition. Yes, addition. Keep the icon based passing too.