This man speaks the truth about people's expectations of football games

[Smoke6]

Quote: Originally Posted by Gosens6

He could have stopped recording at 1:10 and I would have agreed with everything he said. Madden is just a game, people act like they're entitled to everything they see on Sundays down to an exact 100% science. That didn't happen with NFL 2K5, it didn't happen before it, and it won't happen. I believe Madden 12 is going to be the most realistic Madden to date, which is why i'm buying it for the first time since Madden 07 on PS2. Where your game is downright bad, then people have the right to complain, but i'm seeing people complain about the Madden 12 demo saying it's horrible and this and that. IMO the Madden 12 demo is better than any Madden since we got to the next gen consoles. For the people that expect too much the only satisfaction they're going to get is if they strap up pads and go play in the NFL themselves.

Thats funny you should say that, I would like to know what other games you play besides madden and why.

If its not for the immersion factor of that game or the realism it portray's that piques your interest then I dont know why you even bother to upgrade systems if this is your stance on madden.

people forget the REAL LIFE FACTOR that these games come from, so its expected for that game to portray that image of its real life counterpart.

Whats the point of of a golf game just having a basic swing meter like madden kick meter and just 1 golf club to use all game everytime the game releases?

I dont think you would be singing the same tune if you seen another game giving true to the sport depth and character rather than the example I gave above.

I hate it when people bandwagon on the fact that this 2K stuff should die and EA rules all now mentality. If we dont embrace what was done good in the past and use that input to make better games for the future, then I think I should just stop gaming altogether!

Right now, EA put this burden on their backs with that "target render" trailer and then commenced to dig its own grave by locking down the exclusive to the NFL and ESPN in which it only uses to help market madden and is in no way incorporated into the game presentation wise like we all expected. Instead, they were just playing "keep away" from 2k!

So I sit back and quit being so onesided on the issue and consider the facts of each side and let it be. IMO, it has alot to do with EA holding its pride on its sleeve with regards to why in the world they havent bought or used the tech from natural motion and been dont with it from there. Whter we feel its a bad business decision or whatever it maybe, WE HAVE NO CONTROL and have to roll with the punches!

[Matt10]

Seriously stop this talk about 2k Fanboyism.

People need to understand that those of us who worship NFL 2k5 isn't because we are here on madden forums to look like fan boys.

WE WANT THE DAMN MADDEN GAME TO GET BETTER.

We realize that we are not going to see a more complete game of football that has the title 2k sports, honestly. So the notion to bring 2k5 up isn't negative - it is a base that should be worked from. WHy? Because whether you believe it or not, the game was/is truly the best representation of the game that we see ON SUNDAYS. No, not SUNDAYS on the field - but Sundays from our living room couch. DO not just chalk that up to the TV presentation, it's more than that. It's the excitement of the crowd, the little things such as PASS INTERFERENCE - the quirks that each player has, the player profiles so you know who you're up against, or playing as.

I think EA has done a lousy job of representing the game of what we see on TV every week. Not saying they suck at making football games - I'm saying that they have failed at showing what we see on the TV. Deep down, I know they feel the same way, and that's why I have somewhat high hopes for Madden 12.

With that said, NFL 2k5 accomplished the majority of what still hasn't been close for Madden to accomplish 6 years later, on a more powerful console to top. 2k5 went deep into catering to the fans' needs. Deep, I tell you. From scenarios of play off implication, bubble teams, franchise news, EVERYTHING. The best part about it, they didn't make up some kind of feature label for each and every single entity, It was just called "Presentation". Just like for every madden game it should be just "FOOTBALL".

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ankido

-5 There's a lot of rambling going on in this video. He talks about the game not being real and that it's just a "VIDEO GAME". No kidding there buddy. He also fails to realize if you adjust sliders and add house rules, you can literally have the most realistic football game of your life. I've sat with Bill for hours and adjusted speed and sliders to make the game feel real. We've gone down to the point where stats have become as real as the NFL. Who is this guy to tell us that football game can never be real. IMHO, you don't always get what you want from EA or any other game company. Why feed the consumer everything they want and have nothing the following year. Small upgrades, small features and a little of this and that every year to keep sales up. "we play to win the game. We play....to win the game"

While you may be able to adjust sliders to spit out realistic stats at the end of a season, there is MUCH more to a game being realistic, to me, than just getting realistic stats. To each their own I guess.

For me, there is no such thing as a realistic sports game, unless it has some what realistic human movement. In this regard, Tiburon doesn't even attempt realistic movement, by their own admission (I'm paraphrasing, but when they say that they want the user to be in control at ALL TIMES, that is the antithesis of realistic movement) and that is something that no slider can change. This is also the biggest issue with the series.

The frustrating thing, for me, is that I am confident that if they focused on realistic movement, that almost all of the major issues with this game would be gone.

[Ankido]

You have to understand the sports games can't play perfectly out of the box. Sure EA can sit there and adjust sliders to fit casual gamers and simulation, but they leave that to us. The way we do sliders, we simulate the speed with the actual speed of the NFL. This is difficult for some players because the game is too fast for them so it requires you to think quick. Those who complain for realism end up complaining the game is too hard. Guess what? You want realism, we gave you realism and you can complain. That's what separates real football from video games.

It's time to put the NFL 2k5 vs Madden talk to rest.

[Matt10]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ankido

You have to understand the sports games can't play perfectly out of the box. Sure EA can sit there and adjust sliders to fit casual gamers and simulation, but they leave that to us. The way we do sliders, we simulate the speed with the actual speed of the NFL. This is difficult for some players because the game is too fast for them so it requires you to think quick. Those who complain for realism end up complaining the game is too hard. Guess what? You want realism, we gave you realism and you can complain. That's what separates real football from video games. It's time to put the NFL 2k5 vs Madden talk to rest.

I agree with the NFL 2k5 VERSUS Madden talks to stop.

What needs to start, and I believe has from evidence of this thread, the "2k5, and how it can help Madden" threads should continue to strive. It's not about versus, there's no competition remember? So it's no more "head to head" , it's more about give and take.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ankido

You have to understand the sports games can't play perfectly out of the box. Sure EA can sit there and adjust sliders to fit casual gamers and simulation, but they leave that to us. The way we do sliders, we simulate the speed with the actual speed of the NFL. This is difficult for some players because the game is too fast for them so it requires you to think quick. Those who complain for realism end up complaining the game is too hard. Guess what? You want realism, we gave you realism and you can complain. That's what separates real football from video games. It's time to put the NFL 2k5 vs Madden talk to rest.

I do understand that. Completely. WHat you have to understand is that there exists no slider that can fix what is really wrong with this game.

It goes way beyond speed of the game, or frequency that LBs jump, or accurate stats, or any of that.

The way that this game becomes more realistic will only really come from addressing the physical aspects of the game. Namely, locomotion, player interaction, ball trajectories, and real time physics.

When that happens you won't have to adjust sliders to decrease reaction times and turn down the jump sliders to combat "Super LBs", because you won't need to. A LB won't be able to get to anything that he can't realistically (or closer to it) get to. You won't have to worry about artificial fixes to make pockets form, because pockets will form naturally as a result of their being riding animations and more realistic OL/DL interaction.

Those are real fixes. What you do with sliders doesn't address any of that. You just create the desired realistic result through artificial and unrealistic means. I could design a game with no graphics at all, just X's, O's and numbers, and get realistic outcomes by virtue of adding realistic statistics and tendencies. But it's more than just thye result, it's how you get there that is the problem.

When there is a locomotion, physics, player interaction, and ball trajectory slider, I'll give them more credence.

[nonnel]

This man speaks his opinion... not the truth.


There are a lot of expectations I have with this franchise that aren't very lofty, and they're continually not met.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

I do understand that. Completely. WHat you have to understand is that there exists no slider that can fix what is really wrong with this game. It goes way beyond speed of the game, or frequency that LBs jump, or accurate stats, or any of that. The way that this game becomes more realistic will only really come from addressing the physical aspects of the game. Namely, locomotion, player interaction, ball trajectories, and real time physics. When that happens you won't have to adjust sliders to decrease reaction times and turn down the jump sliders to combat "Super LBs", because you won't need to. A LB won't be able to get to anything that he can't realistically (or closer to it) get to. You won't have to worry about artificial fixes to make pockets form, because pockets will form naturally as a result of their being riding animations and more realistic OL/DL interaction. Those are real fixes. What you do with sliders doesn't address any of that. You just create the desired realistic result through artificial and unrealistic means. I could design a game with no graphics at all, just X's, O's and numbers, and get realistic outcomes by virtue of adding realistic statistics and tendencies. But it's more than just thye result, it's how you get there that is the problem. When there is a locomotion, physics, player interaction, and ball trajectory slider, I'll give them more credence.

This part in bold is so foundational to Madden becoming more realistic and why I seem to have a man crush on Cam Weber. LOL

"First and foremost, we need to deliver an amazing simulation football gameplay experience on both of our franchises. In other words, our fans want to see fluid, realistic player movement and deep football AI and behaviors on the field. This includes what players are doing between the whistles in the middle of a play, and how they behave in our pre- and post-play moments as well."