Propose Question to Community!

[Phobia]

I want everyone to think about this for a second. We are all pretty hard on Madden and EA sports in general. But I want to spin the thought process a little.

We have some community members which people follow and respect very much such as MessenjahMatt, Shady00018, TheWatcher, and many others. Community members often say, "2K/EA hire these guys!!".

Now lets live in a fantasy world for a second and we are all sitting at our desk reading OS and we see a thread pop up. Shady00018 NFL Football, check it out.

Then you download and try out this "game" created by this member you respect and what you get is this



Video streaming by Ustream

• Real player faces for hundreds of players all look fantastic
• Every team is there and looks great
• Camera angles from all the real angles those real stadiums have
• NFL film production camera angles
• Detailed graphics that pop off screen
• Defenders pointing and passing off players to one another
• 1000s of animations
• Online play that is almost always lag free
• Dozens of game modes from Offline Franchise, Online Franchise, Practice, coach, My player, etc
• Full featured Franchise with trades, free agents, salary management, player roles, dynamic player performance, 30 season length, and on and on
• Then goes to the extent of adding this completely online for you and all your buddies to take part in Franchise all together.
• Almost all real world equipment
• Annoucing team from the real broadcast games
• Presentation that matches what you see on TV (for most part)

My point is that we often over look how much is done correctly and done well in Madden. Because we don't have that social interaction with the creators of the product we have a less "respectful" view of what expect.

Now don't get me wrong, I completely know the issues in both EA football games and have spoken loudly about how they should be fixed or should not of even made it in the game.

With that said, I think all of us need to realize that the game has done a large amount right. While the gameplay might suffer as far as realism is concerned in certain areas. For the most part the game is one hell of a complete package.

Just wanted to get the wheels turning a little. Look at what it has and offers and imagine it coming from someone in the community you respect and how you would be blown away by what they created. The guys who create this game are just like these guys, 20 something year old guys trying their hardest to make the best representation of the NFL in video game form.

While we might not all agree with the direction of certain things with the series, I think we can all agree most of us have a biased opinion towards EA because of the fact they are the "Big mean ol monopoly". But in reality they are just a bunch of young guys trying to make a good representation of a NFL game.

[Broncos86]

It IS coming from someone in the community I respect VERY highly: Adembroski.

[Phobia]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

It IS coming from someone in the community I respect VERY highly: Adembroski.

Very True Bronco!

[PantherBeast_OS]

Well love the video and thanks to the unknown person who made it since most everyone who has the full copy is still under embargo. Slants in the final version is still a gimme like in past years and all. But overall the game looks pretty good. Looks like I will have to play slow settings. Since the normal setting still looks to fast to me. Only about 11 days left before it comes out. Man the wait is killing me so much.

[Phobia]

Quote: Originally Posted by Legend Killer

Well love the video and thanks to the unknown person who made it since most everyone who has the full copy is still under embargo. Slants in the final version is still a gimme like in past years and all. But overall the game looks pretty good. Looks like I will have to play slow settings. Since the normal setting still looks to fast to me. Only about 11 days left before it comes out. Man the wait is killing me so much.

Its two developers playing against one another.

[TDKing]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phobia

Now lets live in a fantasy world for a second and we are all sitting at our desk reading OS and we see a thread pop up. Shady00018 NFL Football, check it out.

I'll play along... Is the first NFL game that Shady released or has he been taking my money for the last 25 years! Are the same issues in his game year after year ? Did he tell us certain things were in the game then when we get the game they are not there, not working or unfinished ? Do I have to wait for months and months for patches to fix things that should have easily been caught in QA ? I think the difference is the time and money that people have invested in EA that makes us so hard on them. Its been a long time and people expect things to be in the game by now and not OLD things touted as NEW!
Madden 12 is not a bad game its just should be so much more further along IMO.

[Lieutenant Dan]

Phobia, I understand the thrust of your post. I'll even add to that the Madden devs feel pressure from not just the community, but from overhead. The suits at EA have their own ideas of what can make a game like Madden 'successful' and can/will force these ideas or 'innovations' to be included each year, whether or not the devs themselves think it's a good addition or idea probably doesn't matter. So in that respect as well, I can feel for the devs. I don't believe they are in complete creative control of Madden.

Having said that, legacy issues in Madden (lack of PI, WR/DB interaction, running animations, super LBs, etc) are things that seem to come with the territory every year, along with the improvements and additions.

I respect and like Adembroski as well, and Josh* and Ian. But I would not hesitate to express my disappointment or displeasure to them in a civil, constructive manner about the persistence of legacy issues, or new issues. THis actually helps them with their jobs, and (wishful thinking perhaps) lets the suits know that we don't like something about the game.

I will also not hesitate to rave and praise about the stuff in a Madden game that I DO like. What I will not do is flame, troll, or rant needlessly about an issue because a) we have their ear, b) I don't treat people I respect like crap, especially if I know they are trying to get things right.

For the record, I did not like Madden 06, like Madden 07 for the Superstar Mode a lot, really disliked Madden 08 and 09, and liked Madden 10 and 11 a lot. Madden 11 kept me from going back to NFL 2k5 for the first year since that game came out.

I have high hopes of 12 from what I've been seeing so far. I'm sure it'll have some issues I won't like....I'll post em along with what I do like when the time comes, and hopefully our friends on the inside like adembroski and Josh can help get things done.



PS * Josh became almost a hero of mine after the release of HC09, which to me, is probably the most brilliant NFL game I've ever played.

[kbmnm247]

I respect your opinion and thinking on this issue so I ask you to also respect mine when I say ...

Real player faces for hundreds of players all look fantastic --- This should be in a game that has the only NFL license in town, and has been making games for 15+ years, and what, 6 years of this current gen?
Every team is there and looks great --- This should be in a game that has the only NFL license in town, and has been making games for 15+ years, and what, 6 years of this current gen?
Camera angles from all the real angles those real stadiums have --- We should have custom cameras by now if we really want, this doesn't even qualify as a feature to me to be honest.
NFL film production camera angles --- Is this not the same exact thing as ^ ? Either way, we should have custom cameras by now.
Detailed graphics that pop off screen --- --- This should be in a game that has been made for 6 years on the current 360/PS3 gen. If it didn't have detailed graphics a lot of people would pass over it and play old, better, more features versions.
Defenders pointing and passing off players to one another --- And also defenders who don't look at the play but can read the play like a psychic?
1000s of animations --- 6 years current gen there should be a lot more animations or at least more randomness of them occurring. As is now you get the upper body battle tackle (hard to describe it really) a majority of the time, at least when I've been playing 11 and 12 demo.
Online play that is almost always lag free --- I doubt that is the case for 100% or even 80% of the Madden Online community.
Dozens of game modes from Offline Franchise, Online Franchise, Practice, coach, My player, etc ---- Once again, 6 years on Current Gen and we are finally starting to get to where we were years ago.
Full featured Franchise with trades, free agents, salary management, player roles, dynamic player performance, 30 season length, and on and on --- This is the same thing as the feature above and they still don't have a FULL NFL featured franchise, and that is after totally redoing the Offline Franchise mode.
Then goes to the extent of adding this completely online for you and all your buddies to take part in Franchise all together. --- Um yeah, this doesn't exist.
Almost all real world equipment --- Almost? Shouldn't everything that the players wear be in the game, what would be the reason to not include something? It can't possibly take up much disk space for a texture like that.
Annoucing team from the real broadcast games --- If it didn't have commentary it would belong on the NES.
Presentation that matches what you see on TV (for most part) --- This is the same as 2 features above that were listed, just in different words. And "for most part" means that it could be better.


So basically what I'm getting at is that yes, if this were a brand new game, I'd be ecstatic that all of this was included. The fact that it is not a brand new game but a new iteration of a game that has been out for 20+ years... well that makes me say "Why are we praising them for things that they should be doing?"

It's like the Chris Rock standup quote, ____ want praise for things they are SUPPOSED to do! You're telling me we should be praising and thanking EA ON TOP of paying them $60 each year to play these games? Pretty much nothing you listed pops out as "Oh, EA really went out of their way to do ____ and it will really enhance my gaming experience" like EA did with FIFA this year (full physics system and constantly enhancing their gameplay), did with NHL a few years ago (full redo of the game, introducing RS controls, enhancing gameplay every year), 2K did with NBA (Jordan mode, NBA today mode, 1000s of new animations every year).

I just think EA has the wrong attitude when it comes to Madden for some reason. They like to just add and add rather than refine and THEN add so what you end up getting isn't the best product they could produce.

That being said, I like the 12 demo, and will most likely buy this years version because I HAVE to play with my Philly Eagles after this offseason. I just think it could be better, that's all.