Creating a "We want Madden to represent REAL a football game" group on FB

[TNT713]

I'm all for representing the NFL in Madden. Always have been. But I've said hundreds of times over the past few years that football shouldn't be compared to other sports games in regard to simulating the sports within an electronic environment. The challenges of programming a game that is so much more collision heavy taxes processors in a way other sports games simply cannot.

For several reasons, no one will ever develop a game that we can all point to as being a realistic football game as seen on TV. They don't play football on TV - they play it on the field. They just SHOW it on TV.

For one, football as SEEN on TV is not the same as the way its PLAYED. In an interactive football game, it is highly unlikely that players seeking the 'spectator' experience. The level of responsibility that comes with making the decisions that is substantially higher than simply watching a game on TV...

Here's an excerpt from an article I wrote called "Simulation and Responsibility" that describes the level of responsibility of anyone that can actually have an outcome on a game (coaches, players, spectators in the stands):

Quote:

In the stadium on Sundays everyone has a responsibility. We see the end result of months of preparation by highly trained athletes. These athletes drill for hours in the hot sun, learn 100's of plays, and stretch their bodies to the limits to produce 3-hours of football they hope they can be proud of when the game is over. After all, it's a players responsibility to come to camp in shape and ready to play football. A player's position with the team depends on his preparation. Players aren't the only ones who have to show ready at game time. By the time we see a game, coaches have slept in their offices, stressed over how to replace players, pared their playbooks down to the few plays their team has practiced and is able to execute, while remaining flexible for contingencies that may occur in the game. The coach's ability to prepare his team to win is what earns, protects, and safeguards their position with the team. Fans at the game have a responsibility to know how to use their voices to help their team.Even fans at the stadium have a responsibility at game time. They must be aware of the effect of their voices, and use them to help propel their team to victory. Crowds effect 3rd down plays when they cheer loud enough that players can't hear the snap count. Players get hyped and get an extra burst of adrenaline when the stadium is charged with energy. It's a fans responsibility to know when their cheers will best help the team they root for.

Until gamers like you and me embrace ALL of the facets of the NFL experience, including the responsibility we have when making and executing our football decisions, Madden will seem more flawed than it is.

As an online player who plays random opponents, I cannot speak for the NFL representation in other modes, but beyond the obvious (teams, players, stadiums, plays, formations, etc) online play represents many elements of the NFL:

1) The NFL is called the "copy cat league" and online mirrors this perception. When Don Coryell was a pioneer, no one was using his offense. Now, every football fan knows what a "9" route is. Online, as soon as one person executes a play to perfection, everyone seems to use it and execute it just as well within a manner of minutes.

2) The NFL is about physical skills, mental toughness, and the ability to adapt to multitude of possible situations. Madden is identical in those regards. If your stick skill, attitude, or adaptability aren't prepared for the challenge, the obvious outcome is accurately represented by devastating losses.

3) The NFL requires dedication to practice and training. NFL players lift weights, watch film, and practice snaps against their opponent's plays. Some Madden players represent these preparation methods.

Simply put, I lean on the users to represent the NFL experience from the responsibility standpoint. I believe the more you put into simulating the football we love, the more accurately the NFL experience is duplicated.

If the FB Group places an emphasis on personal responsibility for our own role in representing the NFL, I'm ready to join. But if it's the type of group that presses EA without pressing users just as hard - I don't believe the goal of "NFL Representation" can be achieved.

Later

[DarthRambo]

Quote: Originally Posted by Got2Words4ya

I'm not saying that we can't want it too get better, all i'm saying is accept it for what it is, a game , not the real thing that we see on saturdays and sundays. It will never be like that no matter how many edits we make to rosters, or how many sliders we tweak. I think both ncaa and madden are great this year, but i have no expectations for them too be as realistic as what I watch on sat and sun, niether should you or anyone else for that matter, its not going too happen. Accept it as a VIDEO GAME, have fun with it, you'd be suprised how much fun they actually are when you just play them and quit looking for every little mistake.

I accept that it's a video game. Read the first post again, I said I don't expect perfection. I know we will never see Madden potray every single little thing we see on Sundays. However, it's 2011 and Madden has been out on the next gen since 2005. By the time they finally get it "right" on here the PS4 and new xbox system will be out more than likely. PS4 is slated to come out next year I believe anyway.

If we take a look at sports video games we have now, the "average" is pretty darn good, with some being exceptional! Madden I think this year, I can finally say after 5yrs that it's "good", but not very good, and not close to being "great".

Yes, I hear the argument that football games are much harder to develop than other sports games because of the multiple collisions at once on the field. And how the controls can change within the same play: pre-snap, during the play, and running with the ball etc etc...BUT in 5 years, you really don't think we should have a much better product than what we have now? (voice of the Miz)--->Really? Reallyy!?

I'm not bashing Madden at all, as again I think this years game is good. I feel alot of the problem is changing of the development team too often. I thought Ian was good and had Madden going in the direction we all like for the first time in its history! What happened to him?? And now the new team sounds really good, and more ppl on the team as well should help. The direction of the game appears to be heading in the right direction again.

I tihnk the biggest issue is EA being all about money however. Their focus is shifted so much to online gaming with Madden(as have all sports titles, which sucks!).

We now have to have an online pass to play online, which makes us buy the game brand new if we want it or buy as a DLC, all about making $$. The Madden Ultimate Team, while not huge here on OS I know ppl who love it! PPl spend money for coind to buy card packs time and time again! Again, it's all about making $$ for EA. That's why you see in their patches they addres MUT and online gaming so much over offline gameplay issues. They want the money makers working correctly first some more ppl will spend $$!! And it's only going to get worse guys...

EA is a business who wants to make money, and they will come up with any way possible to nickel and dime us for things. Those nickel and dimes may not seem much, but add up when youre talking THOUSANDS of them!!! Since they are so focuseds on online gaming, offline franchise players get screwed. I can care less about ever playing online, and def not interested in MUT. I just wish EA would hire a seperate team to develop online crap and let the others focus on actual gameplay.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

As an online player who plays random opponents, I cannot speak for the NFL representation in other modes, but beyond the obvious (teams, players, stadiums, plays, formations, etc) online play represents many elements of the NFL:

In Franchise mode, there's a LOT of off-the-field stuff that could be added in to give NFL representation.

Fixing IR, adding practice squads, fleshing out development, improving trading logic, preseason cut logic, etc.

What's sad is this stuff was in the older games. FAs wanted more than simply just the highest paycheck, roles just now made their way back, etc.

As far as on the field, I agree with your three points. That said, I do think the players (as in the other 10 guys you don't control) can play better. I accept it's hard, but, if they are going to take the challenge of making the game...

Users have to play well and execute football, and should learn more about the game, I agree, but the game should also execute football and football movement and football logic of the 10 guys you don't control. You say people just want to push EA - you're on the other side saying the gamers need to push themselves. I say it's some of both. I shouldn't expect the game to totally do it all, but it shouldn't be totally oblivious either. I have to call a realistic game, but the game should also play realistic.

I should know when to hot route and what hot route to call. Yes. The WR should also know how to run that route and read the coverage just like I have to as the QB.

It's a two-way street, imo. Not just users need to learn more football while EA doesn't need to fix things.

[Fieldersman99]

IMO Ill post ideas to the page with the same name as the group, with John Madden's pic.

[Smoke6]

Quote: Originally Posted by Got2Words4ya

i understand the fact that everyone wants a sim style game, however the key word is video game. Go back and play atari 2600 football and look how far the game has evolved. It will never be perfect for everyone. Thats also the key point. Whats good for you is not good for me, whats good for me isn't good for you. I think we need too accept the fact that its a game and thats it. I know I do, I don't expect it too be a perfect sim game niether should you or anyone else for that matter.

I really do not like people with this mentality, no one here is asking for "perfection", we just want it close to the NFL experience as possible all the while knowing its a videogame!

The issues im sure most of us would like to see help represent that is the weight and mass of the players truly hold effect to the way the game is played on sundays.

As it stands now, players still feel like they're ice skating, linemen on both sides of the ball do not move in a way that indicates there weight and size, and also, players make hip replacement movements when defending or going for the ball, the footing is just displaced in this game.

But I say again, no one is striving for perfection in regards to realism, this game should already be there and its not. i would prefer for madden to be an every other year title with an roster update and fixes along the way while we wait for the retail version the following year.

I can be down with this cause!

[jkra0512]

Quote: Originally Posted by Smoke6

I really do not like people with this mentality, no one here is asking for "perfection", we just want it close to the NFL experience as possible all the while knowing its a videogame! The issues im sure most of us would like to see help represent that is the weight and mass of the players truly hold effect to the way the game is played on sundays. As it stands now, players still feel like they're ice skating, linemen on both sides of the ball do not move in a way that indicates there weight and size, and also, players make hip replacement movements when defending or going for the ball, the footing is just displaced in this game. But I say again, no one is striving for perfection in regards to realism, this game should already be there and its not. i would prefer for madden to be an every other year title with an roster update and fixes along the way while we wait for the retail version the following year. I can be down with this cause!

You realize the amount of money they would lose if they did this? In order to recoup their lost profits, guess what they would do? They would take away roster sharing and begin charging for each roster update. So in the end you're still paying the same amount of money for minuscule updates. And since you can't play online ranked matches without updated rosters, they would lose the casual crowd, whom they make most of their money from.

Listen, I get what you're saying. The more time they to work on the game, the better. I agree with that, but what you're hoping for won't happen....EVER.

I have a better title for this "movement", how about "Occupy Madden"

[DarthRambo]

Quote: Originally Posted by Fieldersman99

IMO Ill post ideas to the page with the same name as the group, with John Madden's pic.

The page is what I'm taking about. I just titled the thread incorrectly, sorry bout that.

[scoonie05]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

I'm all for representing the NFL in Madden. Always have been. But I've said hundreds of times over the past few years that football shouldn't be compared to other sports games in regard to simulating the sports within an electronic environment. The challenges of programming a game that is so much more collision heavy taxes processors in a way other sports games simply cannot. For several reasons, no one will ever develop a game that we can all point to as being a realistic football game as seen on TV. They don't play football on TV - they play it on the field. They just SHOW it on TV. For one, football as SEEN on TV is not the same as the way its PLAYED. In an interactive football game, it is highly unlikely that players seeking the 'spectator' experience. The level of responsibility that comes with making the decisions that is substantially higher than simply watching a game on TV... Here's an excerpt from an article I wrote called "Simulation and Responsibility" that describes the level of responsibility of anyone that can actually have an outcome on a game (coaches, players, spectators in the stands): Until gamers like you and me embrace ALL of the facets of the NFL experience, including the responsibility we have when making and executing our football decisions, Madden will seem more flawed than it is. As an online player who plays random opponents, I cannot speak for the NFL representation in other modes, but beyond the obvious (teams, players, stadiums, plays, formations, etc) online play represents many elements of the NFL: 1) The NFL is called the "copy cat league" and online mirrors this perception. When Don Coryell was a pioneer, no one was using his offense. Now, every football fan knows what a "9" route is. Online, as soon as one person executes a play to perfection, everyone seems to use it and execute it just as well within a manner of minutes. 2) The NFL is about physical skills, mental toughness, and the ability to adapt to multitude of possible situations. Madden is identical in those regards. If your stick skill, attitude, or adaptability aren't prepared for the challenge, the obvious outcome is accurately represented by devastating losses. 3) The NFL requires dedication to practice and training. NFL players lift weights, watch film, and practice snaps against their opponent's plays. Some Madden players represent these preparation methods. Simply put, I lean on the users to represent the NFL experience from the responsibility standpoint. I believe the more you put into simulating the football we love, the more accurately the NFL experience is duplicated. If the FB Group places an emphasis on personal responsibility for our own role in representing the NFL, I'm ready to join. But if it's the type of group that presses EA without pressing users just as hard - I don't believe the goal of "NFL Representation" can be achieved. Later

Quote: Originally Posted by jkra0512

You realize the amount of money they would lose if they did this? In order to recoup their lost profits, guess what they would do? They would take away roster sharing and begin charging for each roster update. So in the end you're still paying the same amount of money for minuscule updates. And since you can't play online ranked matches without updated rosters, they would lose the casual crowd, whom they make most of their money from. Listen, I get what you're saying. The more time they to work on the game, the better. I agree with that, but what you're hoping for won't happen....EVER. I have a better title for this "movement", how about "Occupy Madden"

I agree with these post's. 100% People have been trying for year's for another football game and guess what happened.......wait for it..........it's coming..........NOTHING!!!