This article from IGN.......

[Franchise408]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

I fully understand anyone that doubts Madden ever being on par with other sport sims, under the exclusive NFL license. However, my belief that M13 will finally be that game, even if proven wrong, is based on tangible evidence. If someone had asked me if I thought M12 would be this good after playing M11, I would have said HECK NO! lol. DPP alone is something I would have never thought would be considered for Madden, much less a touted marketing feature. M12 is by no means "there" but it gives me the impression that somebody making decisions about EA football finally "gets it". I don't want to go into some long list of things that seem to bode well for Madden's NFL sim future but for example, after yearssssssss of trying "beyond broadcast", EA finally allocated seemingly vast resources on network broadcast presentation. Look, I am not naive enough to believe that EA suits suddenly decided out of the kindness of their corporate hearts to give disgruntled gamers a solid NFL simulation. What I believe is a business decision was made that they could poop in a box, label it Madden NFL and sell to casuals but the untapped market for Madden, being capitalized on by other sport simulation games, is hardcore sports gamers. I believe in 2012, EA has ever intention of attempting to obtain a huge share of that demographic, with M13. M12 and the information coming out about EA football seem to line up with this.

I hope you're right. I just want a competent NFL sim game, and I don't believe Madden provides that, with or without an exclusive license, because I don't believe that it -ever- offered that, even when NFL 2K was around, which is why I ended up drifting over to 2K. Before they came around, I was a Madden gamer, and everytime I played Madden there was always something missing. I'd never even get through a season. Then 2K came out and BAM I never looked back (well, technically I did, because every year except 2005, I gave Madden first dibs to impress me before I eventually returned it and traded it for 2K). As such, I don't believe it ever will.

While Madden '12 did certainly make strides from Madden '11, there are just still too many things at the very foundation of the game that bother me. I just don't see that foundation ever changing into anything that I deem quality NFL football.

[Franchise408]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

Franchise408, Perhaps this should be talked about on another thread... You obviously aren't interested in Madden. But you seem to pay particular attention to bashing me because I love this video game. That aside, I don't know how anyone can say, with any sincerity, that football acumen has no value in a Madden game. Later

I'm obviously interested in Madden since I've bought it in some form every year going back to Madden '08.

I don't hate Madden to be some kind of hipster, I hate Madden because I genuinely feel it butchers NFL football with atrocious AI and questionable gameplay mechanics. I end up buying it every year because 1.) I am a fan of the NFL before I am a ***** of Madden and 2.) it's become a yearly gathering for myself, my brother, and some close friends to all get together, hang out, grab dinner, grab some drinks, and go pick up Madden at midnight and go back to someone's place and play Madden on multiple consoles until the sun comes up.

I wouldn't need NFL 2K back if Madden did good. I don't care who makes the NFL game, I just want it to be good. Feature wise, there is a lot of stuff that I like from Madden. I have always preferred Madden's features even to the vaunted 2K. I wanted Madden to be better than NFL 2K because the features were great. I still want Madden to be better than it is to make me forget once and for all about NFL 2K.

Yea, I'm interested in Madden. I want an NFL experience on my X-Box, and I want it to be good. Madden hasn't provided me with good yet. Not liking it is a whole lot different than not being interested. I want Madden to be good. Look at my earlier posts regarding Madden '12 this year. I was trying to find good things about it. I was trying to find the good in it, and believe that the bad was gone. But the bad inevitably reared it's ugly head once again.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Franchise408

I hope you're right. I just want a competent NFL sim game, and I don't believe Madden provides that, with or without an exclusive license, because I don't believe that it -ever- offered that, even when NFL 2K was around, which is why I ended up drifting over to 2K. Before they came around, I was a Madden gamer, and everytime I played Madden there was always something missing. I'd never even get through a season. Then 2K came out and BAM I never looked back (well, technically I did, because every year except 2005, I gave Madden first dibs to impress me before I eventually returned it and traded it for 2K). As such, I don't believe it ever will. While Madden '12 did certainly make strides from Madden '11, there are just still too many things at the very foundation of the game that bother me. I just don't see that foundation ever changing into anything that I deem quality NFL football.

Some see things as the jar half full, others see things as the jar half empty.

I'm with Big on this one, I wasn't at all impressed with 11 and 12, even though it's missing items that aren't there, yet, I do feel the future is looking brighter for Madden based on bright hopes for the new team in place.

[Franchise408]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

Some see things as the jar half full, others see things as the jar half empty. I'm with Big on this one, I wasn't at all impressed with 11 and 12, even though it's missing items that aren't there, yet, I do feel the future is looking brighter for Madden based on bright hopes for the new team in place.

I will say this, I hope that you and Big F'n Deal are right.

For all the flak I get for being a 2K fanboy (and perhaps, rightfully so), I desperately want to eat crow, I desperately want to say that I was wrong, and that EA made a Madden that outdid NFL 2K5 on every level.

Like I said to TNT, I think my earlier posts this season in regards to Madden '12 proved that. I was going out of my way to say good things about Madden '12 and to give it praise. Madden proving me wrong, and creating the ultimate football game, will make me just as happy as the exclusive ending and 2K coming back.

So remember this post, mark this day on your calendar, I hope that you and Big F'n Deal are right. As a gamer, nothing would make me happier than to see Madden succeed in creating a truly impressive football game. I will gladly eat crow if that happens. Despite what it may seem like from some of my posts, I truly don't constantly bring up 2K5 for the sole purpose of being a hipster and bashing Madden just for the sake of it. I'll be here, even if just lurking by that point in the season, doing my research on Madden, probably being impressed with the features like I always am, just hoping on a wing and a prayer that the on field issues are addressed.

(Okay, I kinda lied. There's one thing that will make me happier in video games than Madden hitting those marks, and that's Skyrim coming out, but that's a whole other level )

[TNT713]

Quote: Originally Posted by Franchise408

For all the flak I get for being a 2K fanboy (and perhaps, rightfully so), I desperately want to eat crow, I desperately want to say that I was wrong, and that EA made a Madden that outdid NFL 2K5 on every level. Like I said to TNT, I think my earlier posts this season in regards to Madden '12 proved that. I was going out of my way to say good things about Madden '12 and to give it praise. Madden proving me wrong, and creating the ultimate football game, will make me just as happy as the exclusive ending and 2K coming back. So remember this post, mark this day on your calendar, I hope that you and Big F'n Deal are right. As a gamer, nothing would make me happier than to see Madden succeed in creating a truly impressive football game. I will gladly eat crow if that happens. Despite what it may seem like from some of my posts, I truly don't constantly bring up 2K5 for the sole purpose of being a hipster and bashing Madden just for the sake of it. I'll be here, even if just lurking by that point in the season, doing my research on Madden, probably being impressed with the features like I always am, just hoping on a wing and a prayer that the on field issues are addressed. (Okay, I kinda lied. There's one thing that will make me happier in video games than Madden hitting those marks, and that's Skyrim coming out, but that's a whole other level )

Franchise408,

I may have misjudged you. What I mistook as a 2K fanboy who was upset that his favorite game was no longer in production, when you're actually a fan of the pro football genre.

Once upon a time, I too was a fan of the entire genre. I played virtually every NFL licensed game from Super Tecmo Bowl until Madden '2000. During that decade I discovered that Madden is the only game that made me want to spend money on systems, controllers, surround sound, bigger TV's, etc. So I stopped playing the genre, and stayed with the game that gave me the most enjoyment. That game was and is Madden.

While you've been playing Madden since '08... I have almost 15 years more experience dealing with the genre as a whole. My decision to play Madden didn't happen until I've been the other choices for nearly a decade. You haven't had ANY choices...

Truth of the matter is, I wish there were other NFL games available... It would give the people who play football for the fun someplace where they don't have to worry about the cut-throat world of competition that is the driving force behind my affinity for Madden.

Later

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

Franchise408, I may have misjudged you. What I mistook as a 2K fanboy who was upset that his favorite game was no longer in production, when you're actually a fan of the pro football genre. Once upon a time, I too was a fan of the entire genre. I played virtually every NFL licensed game from Super Tecmo Bowl until Madden '2000. During that decade I discovered that Madden is the only game that made me want to spend money on systems, controllers, surround sound, bigger TV's, etc. So I stopped playing the genre, and stayed with the game that gave me the most enjoyment. That game was and is Madden. While you've been playing Madden since '08... I have almost 15 years more experience dealing with the genre as a whole. My decision to play Madden didn't happen until I've been the other choices for nearly a decade. You haven't had ANY choices... Truth of the matter is, I wish there were other NFL games available... It would give the people who play football for the fun someplace where they don't have to worry about the cut-throat world of competition that is the driving force behind my affinity for Madden. Later

LOL. TNT, the subtle way you sometimes slide in a seemingly innocent slight at those who have a different POV about Madden always makes me smirk.

Madden online undoubtedly has some "cut-throat" competition that will do absolutely anything to win and even I enjoy the competitive spirit of online. However, most gamers that have issues with Madden love competition but feel Madden doesn't adequately regulate that competition within NFL guidelines.

They are not gamers that could care less about winning and fierce competition, they just believe, as I do, that defeating an opponent outside the guidelines that constitute NFL football, because you can, shows a lack of integrity.

We have engaged in this discussion before and I still state it's at least disingenuous, if not outright misleading, when gamers should go online expecting adequate NFL regulated video game football but find that EA allowing personal fun trumps NFL authenticity.

To rephrase your last paragraph "Truth of the matter is, I wish there were other NFL games available... It would give the people who play football for the [realism] someplace where they don't have to worry about the cut-throat world of competition that is the driving force behind my affinity for Madden."

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by Franchise408

I will say this, I hope that you and Big F'n Deal are right. For all the flak I get for being a 2K fanboy (and perhaps, rightfully so), I desperately want to eat crow, I desperately want to say that I was wrong, and that EA made a Madden that outdid NFL 2K5 on every level. Like I said to TNT, I think my earlier posts this season in regards to Madden '12 proved that. I was going out of my way to say good things about Madden '12 and to give it praise. Madden proving me wrong, and creating the ultimate football game, will make me just as happy as the exclusive ending and 2K coming back. So remember this post, mark this day on your calendar, I hope that you and Big F'n Deal are right. As a gamer, nothing would make me happier than to see Madden succeed in creating a truly impressive football game. I will gladly eat crow if that happens. Despite what it may seem like from some of my posts, I truly don't constantly bring up 2K5 for the sole purpose of being a hipster and bashing Madden just for the sake of it. I'll be here, even if just lurking by that point in the season, doing my research on Madden, probably being impressed with the features like I always am, just hoping on a wing and a prayer that the on field issues are addressed. (Okay, I kinda lied. There's one thing that will make me happier in video games than Madden hitting those marks, and that's Skyrim coming out, but that's a whole other level )

Couldn't have said it better myself. I had every Madden since it's inception in 1988 up until about 2001. I didn't play many games after that so I stopped buying it when 2k football caught my eye. I enjoyed 2k more because I felt that 2k better represented the sport and was much more a thinking man's game. Of course, TNT will disagree and say I am wrong and know nothing about football because he feels the opposite, and as we all know, his opinion is right. I loved Madden when it was good and in 2004 I enjoyed both 2k5 and Madden 2k5. I've played damn near every football game since the days of RealSports football on the Atari 2600. There are several games that existed back in the day that did things MUCH more realistic than Madden and allowed you to apply real football concepts in order to achieve success.

[Franchise408]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

Franchise408, I may have misjudged you. What I mistook as a 2K fanboy who was upset that his favorite game was no longer in production, when you're actually a fan of the pro football genre. Once upon a time, I too was a fan of the entire genre. I played virtually every NFL licensed game from Super Tecmo Bowl until Madden '2000. During that decade I discovered that Madden is the only game that made me want to spend money on systems, controllers, surround sound, bigger TV's, etc. So I stopped playing the genre, and stayed with the game that gave me the most enjoyment. That game was and is Madden. While you've been playing Madden since '08... I have almost 15 years more experience dealing with the genre as a whole. My decision to play Madden didn't happen until I've been the other choices for nearly a decade. You haven't had ANY choices... Truth of the matter is, I wish there were other NFL games available... It would give the people who play football for the fun someplace where they don't have to worry about the cut-throat world of competition that is the driving force behind my affinity for Madden. Later

I would say that you're still misjudging me.

I have been buying Madden regularly since Madden '08, but I have been playing NFL football games since Tecmo Bowl.

Every system that I've ever owned - which is a system each generation since NES - buying a top notch football game has always been a priority.

I've been -playing- Madden since John Madden Football on the NES. I have played, or owned, numerous Madden titles from SNES / Genesis, PS1 / N64, PS2, and now X-Box 360, as well as some titles here or there on other systems like PC or PSP.

Madden was typically the "premiere" football game. Then out of nowhere came NFL 2K, I believe my first NFL 2K game was 2K1. I was really impressed with the gameplay, but it was Dreamcast only. Then when it went multi platform with 2K2, I picked it up, and enjoyed it. Had many flaws, but I really liked the basic foundation. Something I couldn't say of Madden.

2K3 came out. I bought Madden 2003 first because I wanted to try it out. I wasn't impressed, and went on to NFL 2K3. Then in 2004, I gave Madden '04 a shot to see if it had improved. It hadn't - the fundamental gameplay was still the same, so I swapped it for NFL 2K4 (or ESPN NFL Football if you will), and by 2005, I went straight to NFL 2K5 without even giving Madden a shot.

I am a 2K fanboy because, in my experience, it has supplied me with the best NFL sim. Tecmo Super Bowl was great at the time cuz I was a kid. But Madden never really did it for me. 2K did.

Yes I'm a 2K fanboy, but I acknowledge it is never coming back. So I want to see Madden reach the levels of greatness that 2K5 did. And 7 years later I still haven't seen it.