Viewing Madden From A Different Angle

[Big FN Deal]

Happy Thanksgiving everybody, just waiting to go eat entirely too much and act like it's ok for today. lol

Anyway, even though it's been discussed before, I wanted to rehash the subject of adding a more 1st person style/field level view in Madden. I want to try to avoid repeating all the known and perceived legacy issues in Madden and just focus on what help or harm a new view might bring to the game. I feel like this playing view issue is not unique to Madden and think NBA2k should also consider a 1st person style/court level view as well but this is a Madden forum.

Whenever I play Madden and I mostly play online head to head, rarely versus the CPU, the game quickly becomes very monotonous. While I enjoy the random "tactics" that may be found in head to head online play, the team element of football strategy, that is essential to the real NFL, is lacking in Madden. The games are almost tantamount to 1v1 instead of the 11v11 that NFL football really is. I believe the view may be a more immediate issue than the adaptive AI because as long as Users have the unrealistic ability to directly view and then manually attempt to correct multiple AI deficiencies using "stick skills", the need for improving adaptive AI isn't as exposed.

For example, people complain that FG's are too easy but imagine if the view for attempting FG was 1st person/field level for both Users, without the arcadey arrow and meter. If kicking Users had to "snap" the ball, lead the the kick and utilize button pressure, just like with the passing game and defensive Users had to watch the snap to attempt to block the kick. This would instantly add more realistic challenge to the kicking game and highlight the need for an auto kick option based on real life FG percentages, for Users inept at FG kicking.

The same thing applies for changing the view for every other facet of playing football in Madden. By realistically limiting what each User can directly see, preplay gameplanning, adjustments, reads, personnel knowledge and adjustments of AI players becomes critical for successful play execution.

Making every User responsible for controlling their assignment by limiting them to the view of that assignment would instantly add more immersion and diminish the ability for executing questionable "tactics".

While I understand the business aspect of and the need for an option to, make a NFL video game simulation "pick up and play" easy, there still needs to be more. With Madden 12 introducing EA sponsored monetary competition, there really needs to be a more NFL football challenging mode. A mode that Users can never really "master" because of the unknown randomness of "team" but they can do their best to prepare for.

Team sports are not just about 1v1 and having the better individual players. If it were, the Yankees, Lakers and Cowboys would win every year. Team sports is foremost about how well individual players play together versus how well other individual players play together. The secondary external conflict of team vs team is represented in Madden but the foundational internal conflict of individuals = team is lacking. I believe a simple 1st person style/field level view option, with any required control adjustments, would better represent this and inherently make Madden a better football simulation.

[lofeazy]

^^^^^

Good topic, I like most of your points.I agree that changing the view would help alot.(Not FP thought.3rd person would be better.)God cam is one of the worse things about sports games.(Madden,2k5,2k12,fifa,nhl, and any other sport game I forgot to name.)Thats why passing is such a joke in most football games.

[TNT713]

BigFNDeal,

Good post, but I don't think the camera has anything to do with whether tactics are going to be considered questionable.

While I think having a camera that is closer to 1st person (or close zoomed 3rd person) would add immersion for some - the current coordinator experience is NOT the reason players consider tactics questionable.

While I'd like to say it's purely a skill issue, it's not. Perspective plays a huge part of the game. Having reviewed the rules of hundreds of leagues, tournaments, and websites (SIM and Freestyle) I notice that the tactics most commonly assumed to be questionable are NOT outlawed in communities of DIE-HARD MADDEN PLAYERS.

Within each community of similarly skilled players (whether STR8 or Freestyle) who share the same perspective toward the game, the play is very SIM. While the perspective of players outside those communities may see otherwise.

Alas, many Madden players consider tactics questionable because they don't see themselves as coach, coordinator, and player. The typical Madden player may only know football as a spectator, but his willingness to embrace his roles as coach, coordinator, and player determines the quality of his Madden experience. The more roles a player embraces, the less questionable Madden tactics become.

Of course truly embracing those roles requires that users like you and me, WORK HARD to adapt what we know about football to a plastic controller. It takes watching film, going to practice, taking humiliating defeats, strengthening weaknesses, and improving our knowledge of both football and Madden... That takes YEARS that most players aren't willing to commit.

Changing the camera angle may make questionable tactics less visible to the user. It might even make the game feel more like 11v11. But until the Madden User embraces his all of his roles they will be doomed to see tactics as 'questionable' instead of just tactics.

All in all... MASTERY escapes players who use questionable tactics just as much as it does those who complain about them. Those who pursue MASTERY won't care what the camera angle is (although I prefer the coordinator view). ;D

Later

[scoonie05]

Well very spoken TNT. I agree.

[Big FN Deal]

@TNT and scoonie, while I respect what you are getting at, I was not focusing on limiting "questionable tactics", just that it may happen as a result of a more realistically limited view. I have discussed my take on some "tactics" I have experienced and heard about in Madden, in many different threads and I did not intend to rehash that topic in this thread.

As Madden and most other sports games playing views are currently formatted, there is very little "team" required. That is my main point, that football is not meant to be 1v1 but a collection of individuals coming together to be successful. I am realizing that I desire much more from sports games and actually games in general than what I find currently to be hollow victories.

Not to make light of anyone's accrued Madden prowess but being successful defeating others in Madden, the way it is currently formatted, doesn't feel like much of an accomplishment for me. I play almost exclusively with the Redskins, except for when I was in two online franchises where the Redskins were already taken and I am something like 67-37 in online ranked games. Also, probably 20 or so of those losses came from when the game first came out, playing for money. So even using a mediocre team in Madden, playing randomly against superior teams and "questionable tactics", I have lost around 15-17 out of 65+ games after about 2 weeks "mastering" Madden 12. That reminds me of in the 90's when Tecmo Super Bowl was the ish and I was the best button tapper around the way. I always won the one on one B button press? to either break or make the tackle. That was enough for me back then knowing I had more "stick skills" than others but not anymore.

It's 2011 and most sports games are still about being the best "button tapper" instead of having the best strategy. I think in Madden, having a more realistically limited field of view, would allow "stick skills" to be an asset but make team strategy essential, for success.

[tragic22]

Definitely agree with your points.

[TNT713]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

@TNT and scoonie, while I respect what you are getting at, I was not focusing on limiting "questionable tactics", just that it may happen as a result of a more realistically limited view. I have discussed my take on some "tactics" I have experienced and heard about in Madden, in many different threads and I did not intend to rehash that topic in this thread. As Madden and most other sports games playing views are currently formatted, there is very little "team" required. That is my main point, that football is not meant to be 1v1 but a collection of individuals coming together to be successful. I am realizing that I desire much more from sports games and actually games in general than what I find currently to be hollow victories. Not to make light of anyone's accrued Madden prowess but being successful defeating others in Madden, the way it is currently formatted, doesn't feel like much of an accomplishment for me. I play almost exclusively with the Redskins, except for when I was in two online franchises where the Redskins were already taken and I am something like 67-37 in online ranked games. Also, probably 20 or so of those losses came from when the game first came out, playing for money. So even using a mediocre team in Madden, playing randomly against superior teams and "questionable tactics", I have lost around 15-17 out of 65+ games after about 2 weeks "mastering" Madden 12. That reminds me of in the 90's when Tecmo Super Bowl was the ish and I was the best button tapper around the way. I always won the one on one B button press? to either break or make the tackle. That was enough for me back then knowing I had more "stick skills" than others but not anymore. It's 2011 and most sports games are still about being the best "button tapper" instead of having the best strategy. I think in Madden, having a more realistically limited field of view, would allow "stick skills" to be an asset but make team strategy essential, for success.

BigFNDeal,

I hear what you're saying... I also am old enough to remember Super Tecmo Bowl. Unlike you, I wasn't any good at it. That said, I wasn't any good at Madden either - but that's another thread.

Regarding the 1v1 feel as opposed to the 11v11 feel, it's because Madden isn't really 11v11. It's 1v1 with that 1 person controlling 11. While this may not be consistent with what we think of as football, there are tons of inconsistencies between the real world and the video game world that contribute to this 1v1 impacting 11v11.

Having played 3v3 Online Team Play, I find it to be the best reproduction of the "Team" experience. You literally have to rely on other players to do their job in a way that 1v1 play could never duplicate - even with a new camera.

That said, I get what you're aiming at... You want a different type of experience than the possibilities Madden already offers. But that's the beauty of the game - no matter what EA does - they can always add more for anyone wanting a new twist.

Personally, I enjoy the 1v1 experience most. 3v3 is only better when you have trust in the people you must rely upon. I haven't found anyone I trust yet.

Later

[lofeazy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

As Madden and most other sports games playing views are currently formatted, there is very little "team" required. That is my main point, that football is not meant to be 1v1 but a collection of individuals coming together to be successful. I am realizing that I desire much more from sports games and actually games in general than what I find currently to be hollow victories. It's 2011 and most sports games are still about being the best "button tapper" instead of having the best strategy. I think in Madden, having a more realistically limited field of view, would allow "stick skills" to be an asset but make team strategy essential, for success.

The 2 pargraphs is the reason I haven't played a sports game in a while.(I own fifa12,nhl12,pes12,2k12. 2 of those games are still in the wrapper.)