Throwing the ball away...

[jd369]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

Comically? It seems as if you're asking for a way to intentionally ground the ball without a penalty just because you're in the red zone while the only reason you're pointing to is that - it happens in the NFL. But it doesn't happen in the NFL. In the NFL, we see tons of passes sailing thru the end zone without penalty when there is a receiver in the area. Grounding in the red zone is still grounding. Throwing out the right side of the end zone when there are no receivers on the right side of the end zone will bring a penalty flag. It seems you are looking for a one button solution that allows you to indiscriminately ground the ball instead of doing it the way an NFL QB would. Those passes in the NFL are intentionally throw where the receiver can't catch them - but NEAR the receiver. AT HIM BUT NOT TO HIM. To perform this same action in Madden, you simply choose your receiver and intentionally throw a bad pass he can't reach - just like in the NFL. This thread is all about what you can do to throw the ball away in the red-zone without a grounding penalty in Madden. There are already controls that make throwing the ball too high, low, left, or right of your intended receivers. The question is - ARE YOU USING THEM? Not wanting to use the available controls to do what you want isn't reason enough to create a function that only works on 30% of the field to perform an illegal football action. Strategically, In cases where you are pressed for time and expect the need to have to throw the ball away if the play isn't there - use plays that get you out of the pocket so you can throw it away legally OR throw an uncatchable pass AT a receiver (which is also legal). Neglecting to account for the need to throw it away is a strategic error. Later

I dont get what you are not grasping here. what you said that I put in bold isnt possible in madden, you cant intentionally overthrow a receiver, especially not in close to the endzone. when you throw a pass in madden the ball goes AT THE RECEIVER no matter what direction you push the stick. that is not the same thing as deliberately overthrowing a receiver (which is what Im asking for, only an idiot wouldnt understand that youd have to throw in the direction of a receiver just deliberately high to avoid grounding).

so Ill put it this way. I wanna be able to intentionally over throw a receiver in the endzone and be gauranteed that it will be overthrown, something that is not 100% gauranteed in madden now. no matter what you say there is no programming that will allow you to intenionally overthrow a guy in close to the endzone 100% of the time. there is equal probability that one of 3 things will happen. it will go over his head, he will catch it, or it will be picked off/batted down. in madden there is no throwing it "at him" every throw is programmed to go "to him", just like you cant throw to a spot, you have to throw to your receiver. does that make more sense now?

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by jd369

I dont get what you are not grasping here. what you said that I put in bold isnt possible in madden, you cant intentionally overthrow a receiver, especially not in close to the endzone. when you throw a pass in madden the ball goes AT THE RECEIVER no matter what direction you push the stick. that is not the same thing as deliberately overthrowing a receiver (which is what Im asking for, only an idiot wouldnt understand that youd have to throw in the direction of a receiver just deliberately high to avoid grounding). so Ill put it this way. I wanna be able to intentionally over throw a receiver in the endzone and be gauranteed that it will be overthrown, something that is not 100% gauranteed in madden now. no matter what you say there is no programming that will allow you to intenionally overthrow a guy in close to the endzone 100% of the time. there is equal probability that one of 3 things will happen. it will go over his head, he will catch it, or it will be picked off/batted down. in madden there is no throwing it "at him" every throw is programmed to go "to him", just like you cant throw to a spot, you have to throw to your receiver. does that make more sense now?

Understood OP and even though there are potential work arounds, I agree the current "throw away" button is too limited. That said, wouldn't the best solution be for the "throw away" button to have directional/lead control, so you can direct an overthrow in any direction you choose versus a specific button for "throwing out the endzone? That seems like a potentially simple addition that would work under the current passing system, imo.

[TNT713]

Quote: Originally Posted by jd369

I dont get what you are not grasping here. what you said that I put in bold isnt possible in madden, you cant intentionally overthrow a receiver, especially not in close to the endzone. when you throw a pass in madden the ball goes AT THE RECEIVER no matter what direction you push the stick. that is not the same thing as deliberately overthrowing a receiver (which is what Im asking for, only an idiot wouldnt understand that youd have to throw in the direction of a receiver just deliberately high to avoid grounding). so Ill put it this way. I wanna be able to intentionally over throw a receiver in the endzone and be gauranteed that it will be overthrown, something that is not 100% gauranteed in madden now. no matter what you say there is no programming that will allow you to intenionally overthrow a guy in close to the endzone 100% of the time. there is equal probability that one of 3 things will happen. it will go over his head, he will catch it, or it will be picked off/batted down. in madden there is no throwing it "at him" every throw is programmed to go "to him", just like you cant throw to a spot, you have to throw to your receiver. does that make more sense now?

What you're saying makes perfect sense... It's a common misconception of people who look at Madden as simply pressing buttons and a common complaint of people who are aware but not intimately familiar with the passing interface.

If you want a 100% guarantee that the pass won't be caught, get out of the pocket and throw it away. Otherwise, you're going to have to practice leading your receivers enough to avoid the catch WHILE reading the defense to ensure you aren't leading your passes into coverage if you want to throw it away without a grounding penalty.

We could talk at length about which routes should be lead where against any number of coverages, but the fact remains, we have the means to control where passes are placed. We can lead any receiver too far in any direction for our intended receiver to catch the pass.

My best suggestion is that you practice leading passes enough to effectively "ground" the ball to several routes. This 'skill' goes against everything we instinctively want to do in the red zone, so it's going to take a while to get the feel for it.

Is it 100%? Only when you do it right.

Later

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Understood OP and even though there are potential work arounds, I agree the current "throw away" button is too limited. That said, wouldn't the best solution be for the "throw away" button to have directional/lead control, so you can direct an overthrow in any direction you choose versus a specific button for "throwing out the endzone? That seems like a potentially simple addition that would work under the current passing system, imo.

This makes sense. That said, it'd require Madden to detect if a receiver is "nearby" to where you threw it unless you're out of the pocket (in which case the current button works fine).

Considering the game doesn't even recognize intentional grounding when the CPU QB is in the pocket and does a throw away...

[Quique987987]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

What you're saying makes perfect sense... It's a common misconception of people who look at Madden as simply pressing buttons and a common complaint of people who are aware but not intimately familiar with the passing interface. If you want a 100% guarantee that the pass won't be caught, get out of the pocket and throw it away. Otherwise, you're going to have to practice leading your receivers enough to avoid the catch WHILE reading the defense to ensure you aren't leading your passes into coverage if you want to throw it away without a grounding penalty. We could talk at length about which routes should be lead where against any number of coverages, but the fact remains, we have the means to control where passes are placed. We can lead any receiver too far in any direction for our intended receiver to catch the pass. My best suggestion is that you practice leading passes enough to effectively "ground" the ball to several routes. This 'skill' goes against everything we instinctively want to do in the red zone, so it's going to take a while to get the feel for it. Is it 100%? Only when you do it right. Later

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, but do you think you're like some supreme Madden-playing being? He's not asking for a way to cheat, or a way to just press buttons and play. He just wants a button to do something that should already be available to him. No one wants to throw bad incompletions, especially considering the crazy plays defensive players somehow make. If people want realism, which your first sentence clearly shows you do, then this part of REAL NFL football should be in the game, whether it be through a button or an alternative to the already present throw away button.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

This makes sense. That said, it'd require Madden to detect if a receiver is "nearby" to where you threw it unless you're out of the pocket (in which case the current button works fine). Considering the game doesn't even recognize intentional grounding when the CPU QB is in the pocket and does a throw away...

lol, so true but the thought never crossed my mind. I am by no means a programmer but it might be possible to program an invisible radius around the football which a receiver has to be within, from where the football lands or something, when inside the pocket.

Heck, now a button to throw it out the back of the endzone seems easier. LOL

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

lol, so true but the thought never crossed my mind. I am by no means a programmer but it might be possible to program an invisible radius around the football which a receiver has to be within, from where the football lands or something, when inside the pocket. Heck, now a button to throw it out the back of the endzone seems easier. LOL

Heck, HUMAN referees don't always get intentional grounding right (or they have to huddle and sometimes make questionable determinations about a receiver being "nearby".

That's why I think something involving the receiver button is best. It's also why I don't mind throwing really bad passes to ground the ball/throw it out of play. Incidentally, this is easier with lower QB Acc - since it's easier to throw a bad ball. I bet it would be a nightmare to do with something like 100 QB Acc.

Perhaps a good way would be to do away with the lateral button and make that the "throw away" if you do like L2+receiver button, the QB will attempt to throw it away towards that receiver.

[TNT713]

Quote: Originally Posted by Quique987987

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, but do you think you're like some supreme Madden-playing being? He's not asking for a way to cheat, or a way to just press buttons and play. He just wants a button to do something that should already be available to him. No one wants to throw bad incompletions, especially considering the crazy plays defensive players somehow make. If people want realism, which your first sentence clearly shows you do, then this part of REAL NFL football should be in the game, whether it be through a button or an alternative to the already present throw away button.

I'll take your comment as a compliment that illustrates that you acknowledge tenacity, toughness, and the inability to accept excuses from anyone, including myself.

That said, I'm not the "Supreme Madden Player." I simply strive to become better by understanding and using what's available to me in the here and now, as opposed to hoping and wishing for something to be added and holding my breath waiting for it.

The OP wants to throw at nobody without a penalty when he's in the red zone. That's GROUNDING and comes with a 10 yard penalty and loss of down.

You stated that no one wants to throw bad passes... Yet this entire discussion is about throwing an incomplete passes intentionally to save clock, get another down, move to the next play, etc. Fortunately, you can already do this in Madden. Simply throw a poor pass toward a receiver to an area no one can get it on purpose - JUST LIKE THE NFL.

I'm not sure why anyone would need a special button to throw the ball away in addition to the one that already exists and is perfectly legal to use outside of the pocket. If a player thinks he might need to throw the ball away, he should plan for that contingency BEFORE THE SNAP and be prepared to execute the throw away if necessary...

But that's not what the OP asked for... He specifically asked for a button that allows him to ground passes inside the red zone without penalty, but he's not willing to use the tools that are already available to do it.

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Heck, HUMAN referees don't always get intentional grounding right (or they have to huddle and sometimes make questionable determinations about a receiver being "nearby". That's why I think something involving the receiver button is best. It's also why I don't mind throwing really bad passes to ground the ball/throw it out of play. Incidentally, this is easier with lower QB Acc - since it's easier to throw a bad ball. I bet it would be a nightmare to do with something like 100 QB Acc. Perhaps a good way would be to do away with the lateral button and make that the "throw away" if you do like L2+receiver button, the QB will attempt to throw it away towards that receiver.

Grounding is a judgement call. The best way to completely remove the grey area from the CPU is to not make any in the first place. RIGHT NOW, there's no grey area. The system allows you to pick a receiver and 'aim' your passes OR intentionally throw the ball away. As it should be.

Involving a receiver icon button is the only way to handle this issue LEGALLY. Otherwise, you might as well allow the normal "Throw away" button anywhere on the field without penalty.

Regarding the L2 function for throw aways, it's already a pump fake to individual receivers, which is valuable on 100% of the field. Specifying which receiver to pump to has no equivalent method to perform the function. Using the L2 to create an alternate to the functions that already allow us to throw balls where they can't be caught doesn't make any sense.

What it boils down to is know-how and desire... Neither of which is in the scope of EA's duty to gamers.

Later