New EA Tiburon Creative Director

[ryan36]

Well, I think that if you look at the last 2 to 4 years with 2k basketball and the Show, you see that REALISM is what sells. People say "wow" when the game plays accurate, EVEN CASUALS!

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by ryan36

Well, I think that if you look at the last 2 to 4 years with 2k basketball and the Show, you see that REALISM is what sells. People say "wow" when the game plays accurate, EVEN CASUALS!

Yeah, I agree it gives that "wow" factor but will that be enough to overcome the potential backlash of Madden not being Madden? The niche of games like NBA2k and The Show are their realism to the sport which is an established brand now. Madden's claim to fame has been realistic graphics with an arcade like legacy of pick up and play challenge.

I don't want to argue against myself and actually believe this transition can be accomplished with Madden through various skill settings/modes but EA has shown a tendency towards extremes. I hope they have extreme default realism in an unified Franchise mode with User customization options and "Classic" out the box "pick up and play" for online ranked, MUT and OTP.

[jmood88]

Quote: Originally Posted by canes21

The game may not be what we want in terms of simulation an having great attention to detail, but if you really do not feel we've taken big steps forward in the sim department over the last 3-4 years, then I think you just don't want to see it. I have grilled EA over the years on both NCAA and Madden. Both have major problems that are frustrating to nearly everyone, both have many things added that aren't implemented really how we wanted it at all. However, both games have made big improvements since the 09-10 years in making the games more sim. Look at Madden 12 compared to Madden 09. People still say players move twitchy, the gameplay is still arcadey, and yea, it still is to a point. But when you compare 12 to 09, the game is 100x closer to simulating the real sport. We still have some terrible animations, horrid WR/DB interaction, strange line play and CPU passing logic, and passing trajectories, but the overall movement and feel of the game is just better. If you focus on little aspects like the passing game, you will find that more has stayed the same than improved, and I know that none of us want that. But when you add all of the things that have improved over the last few years, they do make a pretty big difference in my opinion. Now is Madden where it should be? Not even close, but it has made big improvements the last few years and if you can't see them, you're not looking.

Whatever improvements they have made, it has not been enough to make it a realistic or entertaining game. I'm not just talking about gameplay either, the presentation is and has been horrible for as long as I can remember and when coupled with the lack of realistic gameplay, it makes the game very boring. Just because 12 is better than 09, that doesn't mean that it's where it should be, especially after all their talk about what changes they were going to make to improve the engine. I'm not going to give them a pass for improving on things that you admit still remain subpar.

[jmood88]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

Scrapping won't happen. They are mandated by the NFL license to come out with a yearly product. Not directing this at you ABR, but I think some people are forgetting that Cam Weber is doubling the game play team. Adding Kolbe and other signings, looks like they are doing that.

Doubling the team doesn't mean anything if they're still going to do the wrong things, it just means that there are more people around.

[mburke2]

Quote: Originally Posted by jmood88

Whatever improvements they have made, it has not been enough to make it a realistic or entertaining game. I'm not just talking about gameplay either, the presentation is and has been horrible for as long as I can remember and when coupled with the lack of realistic gameplay, it makes the game very boring. Just because 12 is better than 09, that doesn't mean that it's where it should be, especially after all their talk about what changes they were going to make to improve the engine. I'm not going to give them a pass for improving on things that you admit still remain subpar.

I see your point here about the game being behind where it should be and, even though it has made strides in the past few years, it is still frustrating that it's not up to the sim standard that has been set by other game franchises. But this hire, as well as some of the other internal shakeups that have happened recently at Tiburon (staffing additions and departures, Cam Weber being in charge, and the doubling of the development team), give me hope that they're headed down the right path. IMO bringing in a guy who helped make The Show one of the premier sim gaming franchises in the world can only help push Madden further down the path that we as sim gamers want it to go.

[jmood88]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

I wonder why more people don't see this move as a continuation of change rather than the start of it. I have read great things about The Show and been pleased with some Youtube videos I have watched of it but Kolbe is just another step to a current sea change for Madden, imo. I didn't agree with everything Ian and Phil espoused but I have to give them credit for the sharp contrast between M10 and the first three next gen Maddens. I think Madden 12 was the real breakthrough of Tiburon no longer being mandated to focus on making "madden" football games but NFL football games instead. If you compare M10 to M12, not only is the "feel" different, M12 just seems to be created in an entirely different culture. If EA stated that M12 was created at a different studio, not Tiburon, I think many people would believe it and better recognize how this game is fundamentally different. However, do to the completely justified distrust with the series on next-gen, associated with Tiburon, it's easier to focus on the negatives. I will keep stating this until M13 comes out and the facts speak for themselves. What is fundamentally different about next-gen Madden currently, imo, is that EA "brass", not Tiburon, Madden developers or whatever else but EA's business decision makers, have decided that making a "True" NFL simulation video game, on par or better than games like The Show and NBA2k, is the way to more profit. Not only was the M12 marketing tagline "True to the game" but most company resources seemed geared towards making a different Madden. The E3 vaunted feature was DPP, the developer team was doubled, a joint EA football division was created for combining/sharing NCAA/Madden core football technology, tech sharing potentially allowing core Madden issues to be discovered/resolved after the release of NCAA, "ghost teams" getting a full development cycle head start on next years game essentially doubling each releases development time, actual tv networks brought in to demonstrate how to simulate network broadcasting, focusing on Franchise mode and a whole list of gameplay fixes/changes geared towards realistic play. The writing is on the wall, imo, and I believe this new 3 year business plan is all about delivering the most detailed NFL simulation video game, ever. The question is, once that happens, will we all be ready for what we have been asking for?

They can make all the taglines they want but it doesn't mean a damn thing if the game remains lacking in fundamental ways. Maybe you are happy funding a three year plan that may or may not work out but Tiburon hasn't done anything to justify me putting my faith or money into them. It's amazing that people continue to put blind faith into a company that hasn't shown anything worthy of generating that faith. NBA Elite was supposedly a new long term plan to improve the series and that didn't work out, Ian was supposed to be heralding a new focus on little things and realism and that didn't work out. Before him, they were supposedly working on fixing the gameplay issues and that didn't work out either.

All that stuff you talk about was supposedly in Madden 12 but none of it made the game any more realistic or fun to play. The AI was still dumb, the animations still crappy, suction blocking/tackling was still around, the so called dynamic camera views that they worked so hard to get were repetitive, as were the intros, within hours of starting the game. You seem to have fallen for their marketing while ignoring their history of not delivering on what they say they're going to do.

[jmood88]

Quote: Originally Posted by mburke2

I see your point here about the game being behind where it should be and, even though it has made strides in the past few years, it is still frustrating that it's not up to the sim standard that has been set by other game franchises. But this hire, as well as some of the other internal shakeups that have happened recently at Tiburon (staffing additions and departures, Cam Weber being in charge, and the doubling of the development team), give me hope that they're headed down the right path. IMO bringing in a guy who helped make The Show one of the premier sim gaming franchises in the world can only help push Madden further down the path that we as sim gamers want it to go.

Like I said, even though I've never been a Madeen fan, I still want to play a new NFL game. I'm tired of playing 4 and 7 year old games but the current NFL game is still missing things that those games had years ago. I hope that these moves actually make a difference but I'm tired of seeing all these posts about how things will be different, only to have the same old problems exist.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by jmood88

They can make all the taglines they want but it doesn't mean a damn thing if the game remains lacking in fundamental ways. Maybe you are happy funding a three year plan that may or may not work out but Tiburon hasn't done anything to justify me putting my faith or money into them. It's amazing that people continue to put blind faith into a company that hasn't shown anything worthy of generating that faith. NBA Elite was supposedly a new long term plan to improve the series and that didn't work out, Ian was supposed to be heralding a new focus on little things and realism and that didn't work out. Before him, they were supposedly working on fixing the gameplay issues and that didn't work out either. All that stuff you talk about was supposedly in Madden 12 but none of it made the game any more realistic or fun to play. The AI was still dumb, the animations still crappy, suction blocking/tackling was still around, the so called dynamic camera views that they worked so hard to get were repetitive, as were the intros, within hours of starting the game. You seem to have fallen for their marketing while ignoring their history of not delivering on what they say they're going to do.

The bold parts seem to imply you didn't really give much credence to my references on the substance, not faith, of what was done leading up to M12 but that's cool. I don't think I have "faith" in companies, period but I look to tangible evidence to try to infer what they possibly are doing.

Going by this evidence, I believe M13 will be a very good game and finally be that NFL game I have wanted. If I am wrong, no big deal, no nonexistent company faith shaken, I will just "eat crow", accept that I have no idea what EA is doing with Madden and stop NFL gaming until the exclusive license ends, if it ends.

I don't know what your expectations are for enjoying M13 but I think mine are pretty reasonable, considering the strides I feel were made in M12. Aside from improvement of existing features, if they put the same effort into minimizing warping/teleporting and fixing man defense as they did for suction and zone defense this year, address pass blocking like they did run blocking in M10, make offline/online Franchise one mode like Dynasty in NCAA, improve commentary, adjust pass trajectory, allow nearby receivers to trigger pass defense animations to prevent interceptions and add a halftime/around the league highlight show, I'm good.

That's saying a lot for me because I personally haven't found any long term enjoyment in a next gen Madden yet, no matter how hard I've tried but this year came close.