Single-Team Franchise Owners

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kaiser Wilhelm

Please play with the Bills for a season and come back with that analysis. Fred Jackson goes down by a minimum of 3 points every year and SJ spiller is a star in no time. Take a look at Buffalos line. I have yet to play a season where my line progressed, including Andy Levitre who has A potential and is only 5 years pro if that. He usually regresses 2 or three points. According to Madden Leodis McKelvin will be gone in 2 years despite his B potential. These are guys in their mid 20s that just start falling off the face of the Earth more often than not.

I don't play as Buffalo - but Spiller hasn't progressed since I've had him. He's hanging around the same 76 since I picked him up. Blount, though, has grown to 89 (I'm in year 6 in this franchise).

The OL progression is due to pancakes and their not being recorded with any level of consistency. So they fall apart because their stats look like they aren't doing anything.

Some CBs do fall apart for the CPU teams for some reason. Webb isn't great, but he totally collapsed for some reason. McKelvin is still around, though in his 8th year. He didn't develop well, but is still employed.

Though, not all B-grade CBs have suffered so horribly. Brandon Carr is in his 8th season and is still mid 80's OVR. There's other 5th and 6th year guys holding on to 80s OVR.

[rootofalleli]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

I don't play as Buffalo - but Spiller hasn't progressed since I've had him. He's hanging around the same 76 since I picked him up. Blount, though, has grown to 89 (I'm in year 6 in this franchise). The OL progression is due to pancakes and their not being recorded with any level of consistency. So they fall apart because their stats look like they aren't doing anything. Some CBs do fall apart for the CPU teams for some reason. Webb isn't great, but he totally collapsed for some reason. McKelvin is still around, though in his 8th year. He didn't develop well, but is still employed. Though, not all B-grade CBs have suffered so horribly. Brandon Carr is in his 8th season and is still mid 80's OVR. There's other 5th and 6th year guys holding on to 80s OVR.

I probably have seasons that I've simmed enough of to keep my OL from falling off. Also, I think the CPU teams get decent pancakes, which keeps the league as a whole in better shape.

As far as B players go, I wonder if they need to have great seasons to stay in decent shape. That would be a weird model - B players need to rock out to stay at B level, while A players can do a little less on the stat sheet and stay 90+.

Actually, I feel like that's pretty consistent. If a player is past his early years and doesn't get starter-level stats, he tends to fade. That makes little sense though, since there are veteran backups (QBs especially) and situational players who continue to play their roles just fine. If some 77 OVR C potential pass rushing DE gets 5 sacks for my franchise, I think that's pretty helpful. Madden says he sucks and is on the down-slope. If my slot guy gets 40 catches for 600 yards, I'm thrilled. But he's apparently playing his way out of the league. Charlie Batch plays 2 solid games every few years? Not in Madden!

So yeah, there are issues like the OL benefiting more from games simmed than games played, and there are separate issues like the lack of a real model for career backups or late bloomers or late entries into the league. And since roles are in the game, that would be easy to fix- some roles could cause progression to start late or to be based on years in the league instead of age.

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

Quote: Originally Posted by rootofalleli

Fred Jackson is exactly who I was talking about above! He's getting better IRL, but in Madden he's too old to progress. It makes no sense. Sometimes OL can take a dive in progression every year, but I've also had a few franchises in which there were way too many 30-something starters on every team, and hardly any OL retiring before age 35. I'm not sure why some franchises just kill my OL (because I've seen that too) and some don't. And yeah, sometimes B guys just plummet despite solid years. A lot of it depends on position. I should probably test this out, but my overall impression is that while individual players may drop too far too fast, the league still fills up with solid players after a few years in franchise mode, the same as every recent year in Madden.

I don't know. I only play as Buffalo so I have seen too many trends that tell me what to do every time.

I know Merriman will become a nobody even despite the one time he was the best LB in the NFL. That season he lost 6 points and dropped to a 70.

I know Fred Jackson will only be a comparitivly good back for 2 years. After that his 85 rating will be bottom 5 for starters because in Draftees and other younger backs will inflate the ratings.

I know Eric Wood will fall off the Earth because he cannot ever finish a season without missing 5 weeks. I know Levitre despite being only a few years young will drop off.

It just seems progression is messed up for Draftees. One they come in way too high,and then progress like a rocket.

[rootofalleli]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kaiser Wilhelm

I don't know. I only play as Buffalo so I have seen too many trends that tell me what to do every time. I know Merriman will become a nobody even despite the one time he was the best LB in the NFL. That season he lost 6 points and dropped to a 70. I know Fred Jackson will only be a comparitivly good back for 2 years. After that his 85 rating will be bottom 5 for starters because in Draftees and other younger backs will inflate the ratings. I know Eric Wood will fall off the Earth because he cannot ever finish a season without missing 5 weeks. I know Levitre despite being only a few years young will drop off. It just seems progression is messed up for Draftees. One they come in way too high,and then progress like a rocket.

Good point about Merriman - there are no comeback players in Madden. That would be another interesting progression path.

As for the rest, do you usually play out the season? I tend to sim a fair amount to balance stats better.

And I agree too about drafted players. User teams can especially get overrun with talent between the draft and the CPUs tendency to drop A potential players for a chance at UDFA glory. I guess I should just sign those guys and trade them to needy teams for a low pick?

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

Quote: Originally Posted by rootofalleli

Good point about Merriman - there are no comeback players in Madden. That would be another interesting progression path. As for the rest, do you usually play out the season? I tend to sim a fair amount to balance stats better. And I agree too about drafted players. User teams can especially get overrun with talent between the draft and the CPUs tendency to drop A potential players for a chance at UDFA glory. I guess I should just sign those guys and trade them to needy teams for a low pick?

I sim all my seasons/games. I quit halfway through cpu games either from boredom or frustration.

[dfos81]

For OL progressions I'm running 2 different franchises now.

1 Franchise:
I'm getting pancakes to show in stats now for played games. Thats using my sliders, coaching/priority setups.

2 Franchise:
Also if you don't mind play coach mode or have friend be the 2nd controller for you. You can put 2 controllers on user side and before you hike it make sure you have 2nd controller on the OLmen that you want to pancake with. After hiking, pick up 2nd controller and press up on both analog sticks, for the pancake animation that gives you the stats.

Obviously I'm playing a 2 user franchise(w/ a friend All-Pro default) for this to be more successful and enjoyable he will just attempt to get me pancakes all game. Whats cool, is if he doesn't press anything, the cpu will still control him.
We are about 10-11 games into yr 1 and both our teams are up in the top 10 in pancakes per gm.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by rootofalleli

Actually, I feel like that's pretty consistent. If a player is past his early years and doesn't get starter-level stats, he tends to fade. That makes little sense though, since there are veteran backups (QBs especially) and situational players who continue to play their roles just fine. If some 77 OVR C potential pass rushing DE gets 5 sacks for my franchise, I think that's pretty helpful. Madden says he sucks and is on the down-slope. If my slot guy gets 40 catches for 600 yards, I'm thrilled. But he's apparently playing his way out of the league. Charlie Batch plays 2 solid games every few years? Not in Madden!

This is why I hate stat-based progression.

For reasons just like you mention. Every player is compared to a starter level. For a starting DE - 5 sacks might not be great, but for a rotation guy? He's maximizing his opportunities most likely. Same for what you mentioned about a slot WR with 600 yds.

And I totally agree with differing career curves and more roles impacting those curves (in fact, I thought that's what "Project Player" actually did - made him grow later in ratings).

Production should matter at a point (for example, a player may not can maximize an 'A' potential without good/some production/playing time), but right now, it's almost all that matters, and it doesn't work for all players.

Edit: For the B CBs I mentioned holding on, they haven't done anything I'd consider all that great. Maybe averaging 2 INT a year, a handful of tackles. Not terrible, but not top-end.

Edit 2: Yeah, picking up those 'A' potential guys and dealing them for low picks is about all you can do...and then hope the CPU teams don't cut them for whatever reason. If it would take "improving roster" to mean "cut the 36/F DT for that 75 OVR 1st or 2nd year DT", then it would be better at least.