QB Vision

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

ARGHHHH... One of the worst things about QB Vision was the limitation on what a QB could see... JP Loshman, Bills QB, had one of the smallest vision fields on Madden '06 for a starting QB. His field of vision was more in line with a stroke victim than a professional athlete. 30 yards downfield, he was barely able to 'see' an area 5 yards wide... He needed MEDICAL TREATMENT - not a starting QB job. AWR should have nothing to do with vision range... AWR should be tied to the time required to process what a player sees - but they should all SEE the same thing. Tom Brady isn't the best QB because he sees more... He's the best because he doesn't take all day to REACT to what he see's. He can anticipate open areas before they open because he is able to process information quickly - but I doubt his eyes have more range than other passers in the league. The vision cone - even if it's invisible - should be the same for all QB's on the game IMO. Later

I actually agree with you for the most part BUT I think you are misinterpreting what the cone represents. It's not really the QB's sight but more so their focus. Payton Manning's high AWR allows him to better multi-task his "vision" than say JP Loshman.

[Broncos86]

There are aspects of Madden where the player's skill level will dictate performance beyond the ratings of the player. As the Broncos, I have for years taken guys like Tatum Bell and Knowshon Moreno and had them rip off great years because I had better ball carrier vision than they did. What are we going to do, dim the screen when the hand off is made to represent terrible ball carrier vision?

The most likely outcome I can see of any kind is having opposing players and teammates alike affected by awareness. This already happens with traits. I could easily see a QB's awareness affecting the reaction time of defenses and how quickly they break on passes. I'm not quite sure how I feel about that. The precedent has been set, in a way, with running backs and ball carrier vision.

I don't think there's really a great solution to this.

[XXL78]

I would love to see a system that would help me look off safeties and linebackers on offense and read he quarterbacks eyes and jump routes on defense. Unfortunately, the people at EA are more worried about sales than creating a realistic football game. It is sad really.

[XXL78]

Maybe everyone having the same size of vision cone or whatever you want to call it is a good idea. The difference would be in the speed in which elite players could move on to the next read (i.e.) how fact their cone moves across the field. Mediocre quarter backs would have a cone that takes longer to go from one target to the next.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ampking101

I've seen some posts about things that have been introduced in other games and that they should bring back the vision cone (which I like the idea hated the implement). The one thing I've been thinking of lately that would be interesting and make passing much more of a simulation is instead of being able to see the entire field, if the camera zoomed into the QB as the ball was hiked. Not to a major degree or anything but just enough so that you would see a good part of the field but not the entirety as you do now. Now I know they have the zoomed camera angle but here is what would make it interesting, instead of the vision cone, you had the right stick move the camera from left to right and even slightly up the field (cause to be honest I hardly ever see anyone use the right stick in the pocket). What it could ultimately do is make it so that you make your reads one by one instead of watching the entire play like a spectator. They could also implement it by adding player movement so that when you turn the QBs head it actually turns to that part of the field and in that sense you could watch the QBs "eyes" so to speak. That way there isn't the arcadey vision cone (which lets be honest it was very arcade like) and it instead turns it to a more realistic QB experience. I don't know maybe it's just me that thought that way and it may be because I was playing a FPS right before I went to play some football but I thought it would just be an interesting mechanic to add. What do you guys think?

Sounds exactly like what Backbreaker did. If they did this I would like it with no problem.

[Big FN Deal]

My issue with a revised vision cone mechanic is the potential for it to be mastered by "labbing" and allowing Users to supercede a QB's skill with their own "stick skill". In a basketball game ratings matter, so that User controlling a player means being limited to what they can potentially accomplish. You can't User control D. Howard and make 3 pointers by "labbing" stick skills. This same thing should apply for players in Madden and QB's, in relation to this discussion.

First before talking about any controller mechanic, it's paramount that Madden recognize the necessity of representing QB footwork and it's effect on passes. Even if Brady, Brees or the Mannings are being User controlled, they shouldn't be throwing accurate tight spirals when shuffling around the pocket without their feet set making passes. Again, in a basketball game, even the deadliest User controlled shooters need good technique to utilize their skill set. Now, I don't ever want any game to prevent Users from attempting whatever their heart desires but I want those decisions to have applicable risk/reward represented. So if Users want to throw passes before the QB's feet are set, they should be able to but they should suffer an accuracy hit similar to those from QB vision when not "lock on" to their intended receiver.

Sticking to the basketball game comparison, timing has to become a key factor in the Madden passing game. Therefore, route based passing must return and QB drop back in relation to timing, rhythm and optimal accuracy needs to be represented. So when User controlling Grossman, the need for optimal timing and getting the ball out of his hands in rhythm is greater than say User controlling Brady because Grossman's limited accuracy creates a smaller window for error. So User controlled Grossman's footwork and timing should have to be perfect on a deep pass, just to achieve his maximum 80 DAC (deep accuracy).

Representing those things, instantly causes QB pressure to be just as potentially effective as sacks in Madden because forcing a QB to move around in the pocket would increase the chance of an inaccurate pass due to poor passing footwork and disrupted timing.

Now the control mechanics and visuals I think have been pretty much nailed by others, if Madden intends to keep the "bird's eye" gameplay view. Leave out the QB vision "flashlight" and replace it with a non evasive highlight under the receiver/button icon the QB is "locked on"/staring at. What would differentiate high AWR QB's from those with low AWR, would be the time it takes to lock on/stare at a new receiver.

For example, the highlight would be solid under the X button receiver when locked on and pressing X would make the pass. However, if the User wanted to go from "locked on" to the X receiver, to the A receiver, one press of the A button would cause the highlight to move under the A receiver but it would blink until the QB was locked on. The User could attempt a pass at anytime with a second button press but until the highlight is solid, there would be an accuracy hit, not as severe if not looking at the receiver at all but still applied.

The only thing I would add about the controller mechanics is the need for the left analog stick to no longer be for "lead" passing but to dictate pass trajectory and ball placement. Each of the 8 directions on the left analog stick, should represent where the ball is attempting to be placed in relation the intended receiver or spot on the field for route based passing. I don't have a diagram but a description in relation to passing to a receiver running down the middle of the field would be, north=high pass, northeast=high pass over the right shoulder, east=chest level pass to the right, southeast=low and away pass to the right, south=low pass, untouched/centered=thrown at the numbers, etc.

All this together would allow Users to attempt whatever they want with any QB but the elite QB's would be differentiated due to their passing skill ratings and high AWR allowing them to quickly acquire passing targets as well as having accuracy ratings to better compensate for potential User error.

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

The only thing I would add about the controller mechanics is the need for the left analog stick to no longer be for "lead" passing but to dictate pass trajectory and ball placement. Each of the 8 directions on the left analog stick, should represent where the ball is attempting to be placed in relation the intended receiver or spot on the field for route based passing. I don't have a diagram but a description in relation to passing to a receiver running down the middle of the field would be, north=high pass, northeast=high pass over the right shoulder, east=chest level pass to the right, southeast=low and away pass to the right, south=low pass, untouched/centered=thrown at the numbers, etc..

I've been wanting more control of my passes as well -- especially if the mechanic isn't going to change in the near future.

[TNT713]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

I don't have a diagram but a description in relation to passing to a receiver running down the middle of the field would be, north=high pass, northeast=high pass over the right shoulder, east=chest level pass to the right, southeast=low and away pass to the right, south=low pass, untouched/centered=thrown at the numbers, etc.

Oddly, if I were to explain how the passing mechanics already work - this would be exactly how I'd describe how they should work... It's also how I'd explain how many passes to several routes actually do work. Other passes are thrown in relation to the field - depending on how the ball is thrown by the user.

Bullet passes are the most reflective of the method shown above, while touch passes and lobs are more reflective of throwing to a spot. That said, it's possible to throw a bullet to a spot, but those passes must usually be manually caught...

Later