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Why not get rid of potential?

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Old 02-12-2012, 03:35 PM   #33
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Re: Why not get rid of potential?

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Originally Posted by TheDelta
Um... yes, duh? Of course I do. That's really got nothing to do with what I said. The problem is that you know your players potential right from the get-go, there's no uncertainty whatsoever. I once drafted an LB who started out 72 OVR with C potential, so basically I knew right away "this guy is never gonna be significantly better than he is now."

Of course I could "roleplay" this, start him anyway and stuff like that, but that's a completely different story. I know he's got C potential, I can't simply "unknow" that.
This right here is why potential needs to be scrapped. You are gimping yourself if you keep scrubs on your roster. anyone that isnt better than or does not have the potential to be better than my starters is either cut or used to fill roster spots.

I would like to see progression based mostly on player personality and how it fits in with coaches personality/skills and system being used. Just look at Albert Hanesworth. A few years ago he was one of the best DTs in the league, but being traded to a new coach and a new system just didnt jive with his personality. He is now pretty much worthless. The interaction between the coach and the player as well as the system they are in really effects how a player progresses.

Madden should let us set up positional philosophies, like Head Coach 09, that effect what the OVR we see is. Brady or Manning would have mediocre OVR at best with a Mobile QB philosophy(that you would want if you have a crappy OL or run the option), but would have great OVR with a Field General or Passer philosophy. it would have no effect on how they played just let us better set up our own systems.
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:50 PM   #34
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Re: Why not get rid of potential?

I'm not forcing you to role play, but don't complain when you don't.

The answer has been said countless times, that potential should be HIDDEN not removed.

It's kind of like when people play Fallout or Elder scrolls games. Everyone wants to talk about role playing, and then this is how they really play. :WARNING STRONG LANGUAGE:

No one is making you cheat the computer when making trades. No one is making you cut F players you drafted in the first round, and so on. that's all you.

I try to keep my fantasy draft franchise separate from my "realistic" franchise.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:02 PM   #35
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Re: Why not get rid of potential?

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Originally Posted by PGaither84
No one is making you cheat the computer when making trades. No one is making you cut F players you drafted in the first round, and so on. that's all you.
As I said, that's got NOTHING to do with what I said. Of course I can work around that. But if the game was doing its job right, I wouldn't HAVE to. So it's a problem, and as a paying customer, I'm well within my rights to complain about things that make the game less fun to play.

Of course I don't trade-rape the CPU into oblivion. Of course I keep my high draft-picks on the roster for a while even if they don't pan out. But no matter what I do, whenever I have to "roleplay" like this to keep it "realistic", I know that I'm basically doing the game's job because it sucks at doing it itself, if you can ignore that, that's fine, but it still means there's a major flaw in the game.

Everyone knows there will always be limits to what a game can and can't do. And no game will ever be "sim" or "realistic". But there's a certain level of that stuff I can expect a game to have.

As I've said several times before, in my opinion, potential shouldn't just be hidden, it should be changed, massively changed. As it works right now, it takes a LOT of potential fun (no pun intended...) out of the game, so don't go around calling people names because they call the game out for not doing its job right.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:12 PM   #36
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Re: Why not get rid of potential?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PGaither84
I'm not forcing you to role play, but don't complain when you don't.

The answer has been said countless times, that potential should be HIDDEN not removed.

It's kind of like when people play Fallout or Elder scrolls games. Everyone wants to talk about role playing, and then this is how they really play. :WARNING STRONG LANGUAGE:

No one is making you cheat the computer when making trades. No one is making you cut F players you drafted in the first round, and so on. that's all you.

I try to keep my fantasy draft franchise separate from my "realistic" franchise.
The problem I have with simply hiding it now is that, we have been made aware of how it works. So considering that, I would prefer it be scrapped because unlike potential in HC09, other variables don't seem to have any effect on a player's potential in Madden. An A potential will progress into an A player, no matter where they play so once we see Player X progress into a 90+ one Franchise on Team Z, everyone knows that's a good player every Franchise for any team.

However, if implemented like in HC09 but hopefully hidden, just because Player X progressed into a 90+ in one Franchise on Team Z, nobody has any idea how that same player will be on another or even that same team with different variables, in another Franchise.

EA/Tiburon needs to understand there are grown ups playing Madden too, that want an option for a mature NFL challenge that takes the football "training wheels" off.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:24 PM   #37
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Re: Why not get rid of potential?

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Originally Posted by TheDelta
As I said, that's got NOTHING to do with what I said.
Delta, you know I like ya man... but seriosuly?!?

Let's go back to what you said:

Quote:
On the one hand, the system is WAY too transparent. Draft a guy and wait one preseason and you IMMEDIATELY know whether he'll ever have the potential to be a star. So basically, there are no "true" draft busts in this game, players who look nice but never actually pan out, something that happens dozens of times every year, but never in Madden.
Now to me, that has everything to do with what you said. You draft a guy and you know immediately [you know, all in capital letters] if he can be a star or not... well... not if potential was hidden you wouldn't. If potential was hidden, and OVR for that matter, you are less likely to avoid playing with a bust. How do you define a bust? I see a bust as someone who you draft highly and doesn't pan out for you. A gem is someone you pick late and becomes a star. There are plenty of busts in Madden 09, 10, 11 and I'm sure 12. One of he problems though is that the real rookies all have A potential and there is a flood of A potential players in the game.


Quote:
[...] so don't go around calling people names because they call the game out for not doing its job right.
I'm sorry, but when did I call you a name?
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:00 PM   #38
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Re: Why not get rid of potential?

A lot of good ideas on here. Hope the producers tweak it this year.

Another thing regarding the progression and overalls is:

Lets say I draft a running back that is rated a 70 and has a C potential. I start him and he produces 1500 yards for his first few seasons.

He should most likely have some good trade value. Or when I try to resign him, he should be asking for some good money. Or leave for another team who will pay him based mostly on what he has produced.

In real life, he would be viewed as a legit starting running back. But in madden his production doesn't factor in to anything regarding trades and free agency. Only his overall.

Doesn't seem totally realistic to me.
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:46 PM   #39
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Re: Why not get rid of potential?

@Thedelta, you might want to take a rest here. Nobody is calling you names, so there's no need to get defensive about it. That was kinda odd, actually.

There are certain things that one has to concede in a video game. Players don't "learn" for example. As gamers, we sometimes have the "God" point of view. We see things and know things that typical coaches and GMs do not. That's just part of playing a video game.

Whenever a gamer gets upset because a game doesn't immerse him isn't really interested in immersion. I used to immerse myself in my legos when I was 7 years old, but that was my doing, not the legos. Gamers who want immersion find it and apply it. Those who aren't really interested don't. If you're expecting a game to place immersion on you magically, you don't understand how immersion works. PGaither84's Skyrim example (I love Penny Arcade) is perfect.

IMO, if you hide potential, then scouting needs to be much more involved. I don't want to track a kid through an entire season, knowing little more than ratings that don't apply to him, only to find out he's not that great.
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Old 02-15-2012, 02:02 PM   #40
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Re: Why not get rid of potential?

I think getting rid of potential may be a good thing but they still need some kind of hidden rating. All players should have a shot to become a star player. I think that one way to help would be to have a playbook knowledge rating. It would be something like Head Coach but with a faster learning curve. In order to make it so every player has a different learning curve you could add that as a rating too. Something like a 99 learning curve would make that player learn the playbook in a few games. Lower rated players would take longer to learn the playbook.Also get rid of the awareness rating all together.
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