TSS @ Madden 13 Community Day

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by AzureEffect

I'm not really worried about pleasing "biased" people nor should EA. Simulation should be the goal for any company unless it is an "Arcade" title; otherwise you strive for the realist replication of the sport that you can achieve. I get that 12 was a building block and 13 should build on that, the problem is that people don't understand that. Some people see this team as if its Ian & Phil Frazier still and its not. When you get to see behind the scenes, you gain a new perspective and the majority remains "in front of the scenes" so I understand; its all good. August; truth will be told.

This right here is the crux of it for me. I don't know why some people seem to be coming across as if they believed that EA/Tiburon was actually focused on creating an unfiltered NFL authentic Madden before now. The Ortiz years were considered to be targeted at the tourney crowd and Ian/Phil's tenure as trying to find some mythical casual-hardcore hybrid that would use "fun" to balance realism.

Whatever any of our personal feelings about EA/Tiburon, history shows that whatever their intended vision for Madden is, they completely commit to that and the final product this entire console generation, heavily reflects it. I am not talking about marketing taglines or what some developers would hint at but the consistently espoused uniform company vision for Madden, has NEVER been unfiltered NFL authenticity, until now. Hell, just last year EA/Tiburon committed to authentic team entrances and stadium camera angles, which even though quickly repetitive, were great simulations of their real life counter parts, imo.

So if CDers got to see EA/Tiburon putting that same type of commitment to NFL authenticity in as many gameplay, commentary, presentation and Franchise areas, as possible, for Madden 13 and beyond, damn straight they should be excited and I am too. lol

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by AzureEffect

not realizing that if you have a great product, ideas, etc the rest will take care of itself. In this particular case, if you have a great game no matter if it is branded by the NFL or not; there's a niche for you.

Really? It's funny because earlier you didn't say you wanted "The Best Playing Football Game ever". You said "Total Customization football" or something of that nature. Playing great just has to come with the package. No offense regarding your attempt at making a human analogy, I didn't agree. I'd say a human analogy that comes closer is: you meet a woman and the only way you can make her happy is for you to be exactly like her old boyfriend. You have to dress, walk, talk, look, etc. exactly like him. It's over before it's even started because it's not you she wants, it's the other guy. Who'd put themselves through that? If a company could make a great playing football game but the caveat is it allows for no customization, it's appeal is going to be immediately limited.

The problem regarding being a niche title is another thing. Like it or not, APF was a niche title. Backbreaker was a niche title. People didn't accept either of them. People faulted the devs for not putting enough resources behind them. But you can't expect triple-A effort yet expect them to relagate themselves to niche title status. Didn't mean to go off-topic again; just wanted to respond

[AzureEffect]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

Really? It's funny because earlier you didn't say you wanted "The Best Playing Football Game ever". You said "Total Customization football" or something of that nature. Playing great just has to come with the package. No offense regarding your attempt at making a human analogy, I didn't agree. I'd say a human analogy that comes closer is: you meet a woman and the only way you can make her happy is for you to be exactly like her old boyfriend. You have to dress, walk, talk, look, etc. exactly like him. It's over before it's even started because it's not you she wants, it's the other guy. Who'd put themselves through that? If a company could make a great playing football game but the caveat is it allows for no customization, it's appeal is going to be immediately limited. The problem regarding being a niche title is another thing. Like it or not, APF was a niche title. Backbreaker was a niche title. People didn't accept either of them. People faulted the devs for not putting enough resources behind them. But you can't expect triple-A effort yet expect them to relagate themselves to niche title status. Didn't mean to go off-topic again; just wanted to respond

I can feel that. I accepted both though but I am a "minority" ...and tend to not follow the large crowd.

[pats3912]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

From this perspective, what do they need to accomplish to get right in your eyes? If improvement isn't enough year to year, what is? All games w/ sequels are expected to improve upon their predecessors. That's what NBA2K does, and it's what The Show does. Why isn't this acceptable for Madden? ...

Ok, hold on a second. Has Madden improved alot over the past couple of years?? sure it has. But I refuse to believe its improved that much to stack up against games like "The Show, or NBA 2K, or NFL 2K5." Those games have set the bar really really high for true simulation of gameplay, in depth franchise modes, and jaw dropping presentation. When Madden stops putting out half a$$ed features to try and copy what another game has already done we will start to be sastified. When 2k decided to use ESPN presentation, they didnt just put the espn logo for replays like they do in NCAA. The put chris berman in the game for a halftime show that actually showed your replays with chris berman talking over them, they also did the chris berman post game show, with the plays actually saying something into the microphone. They actually put a weekly sportscenter show that sounded great , looked authentic, and actually showed replays from every game and when the playoffs got closer, they would start talking about college prospects in the draft, whos in the playoff hunt, whos in the running for awards, etc.

The point is, 2k always tries to go above and beyond with the presentation bringing new original fresh ideas to the table and they dont ever look back at another game to try and copy what another company did 7 years ago. They are true pioneers and usually lead the way when it comes to making true simulated gameplay and presentation. EA is the exact opposite. Just look at the features they have tried to throw at us. What was that half time show they tried to use??oh yea "the extra point show"???? BAHAHAHAHHA do I really need to explain how terrible of a waste of time that was? How about gang tackiling???? Complete half a$$ed version of what 2k did 7 years ago.

Are you starting to see the trend here?? EA is always trying to take old features in other games and making their own sloppy version of it, shoving it into a game and then they create a bunch of hype to make it look like they're working hard to give us what we want. Then once we get our hands on it, we all hang our heads and realize it just doesnt live up to what they said it would. It keeps happening every year and it hasnt stopped.

So to answer your statement, no, the year to year improvements are not acceptable for Madden. If your going to copy a feature from another game, you better be sure it just as good if not better.

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by pats3912

Ok, hold on a second. Has Madden improved alot over the past couple of years?? sure it has. But I refuse to believe its improved that much to stack up against games like "The Show, or NBA 2K, or NFL 2K5." Those games have set the bar really really high for true simulation of gameplay, in depth franchise modes, and jaw dropping presentation.

Easy there cowboy...I didn't suggest that Madden is in the same galaxy as The Show & NBA2K. Clearly at this point, it is not.

I was just making the case that all sports games incrementally improve, including The Show & 2K. There are some years when there's a bigger jump than others (I think we'll see that w/ M12-M13), but incremental improvements is what you can bank on for all yearly sports games.

So while I know Madden is playing from behind as a result of some misguided direction(s) early this generation, I don't know if it's 100% reasonable to expect Madden to make some overhaul year-to-year while the standard for all other videogame sequels remains to be incremental improvements.

Again, I realize that Madden is behind in terms of simulating its sport. But I don't agree that Madden should be held to a different standard year-to-year than its other videogame counterparts (regardless of genre).

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

Easy there cowboy...I didn't suggest that Madden is in the same galaxy as The Show & NBA2K. Clearly at this point, it is not. I was just making the case that all sports games incrementally improve, including The Show & 2K. There are some years when there's a bigger jump than others (I think we'll see that w/ M12-M13), but incremental improvements is what you can bank on for all yearly sports games. So while I know Madden is playing from behind as a result of some misguided direction(s) early this generation, I don't know if it's 100% reasonable to expect Madden to make some overhaul year-to-year while the standard for all other videogame sequels remains to be incremental improvements. Again, I realize that Madden is behind in terms of simulating its sport. But I don't agree that Madden should be held to a different standard year-to-year than its other videogame counterparts (regardless of genre).

The interesting thing about this is that, a number of people that would probably be labeled "EA haters" actually have more confidence in what EA could do than others. If I believed Madden was as many years away from being a fundamentally quality sports title on the level of NBA2k and The Show as some others, I would have been given up. However, the fact that imo, if EA decided to focus on making Madden NFL authentic, like they seem to have now, it wouldn't take that long to establish a NFL authentic foundation, is why I haven't given up and am so interested in Madden 13.

Now I am not saying I expect Madden 13 to be better or more feature rich than NBA2k or The Show because those games have continued to build on authenticity every year. What I am saying is I believe Madden can establish an NFL authentic core foundation with Madden 13 that provides an enjoyable NFL experience and challenge that causes more people to play the game this year while looking forward to, anticipating, the next year to see what more is done instead of just waiting, hoping they finally get it right.

Many people don't expect Madden to be as NFL authentic as The Show and NBA2k are to their relative sports in one year nor do they want a better "Madden" each year. What they want, including myself, is a football game that seems committed to continuing to build on NFL authenticity every year, not every other year or whenever sales drop.

[stiffarmleft]

Madden does make incremental improvements but it's the follow through that is lacking. Even though 1 facet of the game may have improved, another has either stayed stagnant, regressed or is completely removed. If I were to personify madden, it would be that of a person that lacks confidence in their decisons and is contantly 2nd guessing themselves, they need to stay true to their convictions, then and only then can they improve. Madden reminds me of my Redskins, I want them to be like the Patriots with a clear and focused vision.

Until they have a focus on what they want their game to be the yearly incremental updates mean very little, especially when it seems like they are completely trying to re-invent themselves every year. The reason that the Show and NBA 2k have the luxury of incremental updates is because the base game is so good, slight improvement could make a world of difference.

[coke hogan]

Quote: Originally Posted by pats3912

Ok, hold on a second. Has Madden improved alot over the past couple of years?? sure it has. But I refuse to believe its improved that much to stack up against games like "The Show, or NBA 2K, or NFL 2K5." Those games have set the bar really really high for true simulation of gameplay, in depth franchise modes, and jaw dropping presentation. When Madden stops putting out half a$$ed features to try and copy what another game has already done we will start to be sastified. When 2k decided to use ESPN presentation, they didnt just put the espn logo for replays like they do in NCAA. The put chris berman in the game for a halftime show that actually showed your replays with chris berman talking over them, they also did the chris berman post game show, with the plays actually saying something into the microphone. They actually put a weekly sportscenter show that sounded great , looked authentic, and actually showed replays from every game and when the playoffs got closer, they would start talking about college prospects in the draft, whos in the playoff hunt, whos in the running for awards, etc. The point is, 2k always tries to go above and beyond with the presentation bringing new original fresh ideas to the table and they dont ever look back at another game to try and copy what another company did 7 years ago. They are true pioneers and usually lead the way when it comes to making true simulated gameplay and presentation. EA is the exact opposite. Just look at the features they have tried to throw at us. What was that half time show they tried to use??oh yea "the extra point show"???? BAHAHAHAHHA do I really need to explain how terrible of a waste of time that was? How about gang tackiling???? Complete half a$$ed version of what 2k did 7 years ago. Are you starting to see the trend here?? EA is always trying to take old features in other games and making their own sloppy version of it, shoving it into a game and then they create a bunch of hype to make it look like they're working hard to give us what we want. Then once we get our hands on it, we all hang our heads and realize it just doesnt live up to what they said it would. It keeps happening every year and it hasnt stopped. So to answer your statement, no, the year to year improvements are not acceptable for Madden. If your going to copy a feature from another game, you better be sure it just as good if not better.

i feel u on that. alot of people seem to have selective memories of back in the day. madden use to steal alot of 2k's ideas and try to pass them off as theirs.

hitstick
qb evade
maximum passing
doubleteam tackling
in 04 or 05 changed the control scheme to 2k's
tapping the A button to breakout of tackles.
running back moves on the right stick
comboing moves using the right stick
shoulder block
weapons

now tiburon has come up with ideas of their own, but the quality and implementation of those ideas are always hit or miss.

either way the feeling i got when i bought madden 09, was the same feeling i had when 12 was being hyped. i fell into it and now regret it. they can hype it all they want but the real judge comes 2 months after release.