What does simulation mean to you?

[Danimal]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

I am right there with you on all the other stuff but this 1. lol

As I said I take a lot of heat for that opinion however I don't think it is invalid. A game that is made from a coaching only perspective is inherently going to be more true to players stats and abilities then one were use input makes a difference.

FWIW I want both games but to me I'd rather play in an online league where coaching was more important then stick skills and ways to cheat the game.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by Danimal

As I said I take a lot of heat for that opinion however I don't think it is invalid. A game that is made from a coaching only perspective is inherently going to be more true to players stats and abilities then one were use input makes a difference. FWIW I want both games but to me I'd rather play in an online league where coaching was more important then stick skills and ways to cheat the game.

So do you feel that it is possible to have a game where utilizing stick skills does not equate to cheating the game?

I do, from looking at the many ideas from the community and certain aspects of NBA2k. However, I agree that Madden nor too many other games have not done the best job of demonstrating this and can understand your perspective.

[Broncos86]

The people who want "sim" would, IMO, ensure that their input helps achieve that "sim" level. Those who aren't interested, or value winning above "sim," will do what is needed to win without concern for whether the tactic is "sim." It's just that simple.

The game can always tighten this up, and Madden has in the past. Rocket catches and nanos were major points of contention years ago, and it's less of a topic today. Fair play is another example. In the end, however, the gamer must want "sim" in order to really reach for it.

Also, "coach mode" is available.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

In the end, however, the gamer must want "sim" in order to really reach for it.

That reach can go only so far unless the game tightens up the football aspects that aren't done as well as they could/should be, imo.

And this applies to coach mode as well. Some of these things apply to any mode that has game play.

[Danimal]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

Also, "coach mode" is available.

This statement is flat out incorrect.

You can't play coach mode against another player online and the "coach mode" in the single player game leaves a lot to be desired.

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by Danimal

Well I always get blasted for this but it's how I feel. My top 5 things keeping this game from being a true simulation. 1. You can't have simulation when you let people control the players. IMO it's not possible with current technology to adapt to the gamey things people can do. You can get close but you'll never have true simulation when someone is working the players movement.

I think I disagree with this. If you're saying that users controlling players and being able to do things an NFL player wouldn't do, then OK. In those cases, I just want a couple of things from Madden:

-Have that user controlled player adhere to the limitations of the player & human movement in general... realistic footwork, momentum, acceleration, etc.

-Have the other 21 players react in a realistic way... pursue at realistic angles & also adhere to the limitations of players & human movement in general.

For those that want to play the game like football, the ability is there.

For those that don't want to play football, they'll likely find that their tactics put them at a disadvantage, at least on higher difficulty levels.

[Broncos86]

Quote: Originally Posted by Danimal

This statement is flat out incorrect. You can't play coach mode against another player online and the "coach mode" in the single player game leaves a lot to be desired.

Hmm, I didn't really know about the online portion of that. I don't touch online, so that's good to know.

Of course, I didn't touch upon what could be done better to make Madden a better simulation because I just don't feel like writing an essay at the moment.

[PaleVermilion]

Personally I'm tired of "sim" thinking. I want a game that is FUN to play (note: this doesn't mean ARCADE). I can live with stats not being 100% true to life accurate. I just want to come away from a gaming experience thinking "wow, that was fun. can't wait until I can play another game." The last 3 Maddens for me have all failed in that regard for me. Sure the game looked pretty. But I couldn't even get through a season because the fun factor wasn't there and all three I sold on eBay a couple weeks after I got them.