User Control and Online Play

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

Let's assume - for the sake of argument - that two opponents for the remainder of this discussion have equal knowledge of both football, Madden's tools, and user skills to back up their football acumen, otherwise this is a really silly discussion... Unfortunately, not everyone takes Madden seriously enough to expand their skill set. Some don't even believe they should have to expand their mental and physical skills to play a video game - but they want a 'Simulation.' For Madden, there is an equivalent to lifting weights that means being aware of how every stick movement you make (or don't make) effects the outcome of the play. Every play in the NFL is a USER play. So what if the playing field isn't perfect. You think Ray Lewis complains when the field gets chewed up? Me neither.. Later

Huh? That's your answer to my question, the one you quoted?

TNT, I gotta say it's tough to communicate with you sometimes. You often ignore what's being said/asked.

[RogueHominid]

Quote: Originally Posted by tazdevil20

I'd be interested. I could use some help. Despite doing well against some tough opponents regarding the pass this season, in two games against the Cowboys owner he completed 39-47 passes with 2 interceptions. I could not stop him. I tried TONS of things. All kinds of adjustments and plays. Talk about taking a beating, lol.

The'd take a while to write, but I'll run it all by you if you see me on the box.

The reader's digest version is that I was having problems:
1) Gettings sacked too much, especially by that damn LDT.
2) Getting passes by the pesky backers and overly rangy safeties.

The short answers had to do with some specific strategies for changing launching points, protections, and the timing of plays in very realistic ways on the first point, and a series of practice drills on the second that I've frankly just been too lazy to do before.

I'm not saying anyone's better than anyone else or that anyone has the ultimate perfect knowledge of this game. I'm just saying that I tested the waters, sent the dude a PM, and got a reasonable response that's helpful in-game and jives with my sense of what a real football team would do to address these issues. That's just my .02.

[Smoke6]

Whatever it was I just watched, was complete garbage TNT!

You didnt show any of these "mythical tools" that you talk soo much about in that video you posted above where you quoted me. SMH...

All I seen as another member pointed out is lobby ball play just as I suspected, you fast forwarded the parts where you set up your defense in a manner that will have you looking like a hypocrite from the way you post in this forum.

I see no evidence of true SIM SKILL in that 2 minute drill video, you set up nano's like everyone else and you skipped that part to get to the snap of the ball to make it look like you were on top of your game.

Go play some of them guys over at TGL and post a video of you whoopin on one of them or something in a SIM FASHION.

You havent proved anything to anyone about your knowledge of the game of football in madden from all the questions that have been asked. But since you are so inclined to blame us the "user" for maddens shortcomings, I am still waiting for some concrete evidence to prove your theory (because thats all its ever been)!

[Smoke6]

Quote: Originally Posted by Trojan Man

The'd take a while to write, but I'll run it all by you if you see me on the box. The reader's digest version is that I was having problems: 1) Gettings sacked too much, especially by that damn LDT. 2) Getting passes by the pesky backers and overly rangy safeties. The short answers had to do with some specific strategies for changing launching points, protections, and the timing of plays in very realistic ways on the first point, and a series of practice drills on the second that I've frankly just been too lazy to do before. I'm not saying anyone's better than anyone else or that anyone has the ultimate perfect knowledge of this game. I'm just saying that I tested the waters, sent the dude a PM, and got a reasonable response that's helpful in-game and jives with my sense of what a real football team would do to address these issues. That's just my .02.

So, you had trouble passing over the lBs and getting the ball out of reach from the Troy P's of safeties?

You did the passing drill thats in practice mode thats been there for years and now you are kinda siding with this man who hasnt showed a lick of proof of beating the type of players that have ruined online play in madden to a certain extent?

It does take practice to learn the passing methods that come with each madden and it shouldnt be the same exact way for each Qb as they all have different styles of throwing and what not (but thats a bit much) but I get what you thought you achieved.

Im not knocking you, its just a knock at the fact that these lobby players will make you lose your faith real fast even when you think you have it down. There is nothing like seeing your opponent demolish your SIM gameplan with cheap exploitful tactics.

Like I said , if TNT was that damn good at this game like he claims to be, then he would be making a killing in the madden scene, instead of staying behind the scenes hosting events for the Freestyle players!

[kjcheezhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

YES... A LACK OF USER SKILLS is the reason people cannot pick up blitzes. Considering that people know there are flaws in the OL, but refuse to do anything other than recognize them, when there are plenty of ways (tools, if you will) to offset, minimize, or otherwise negate those flaws. That's called whining. Not being able to call a double-team on a pass rushing threat doesn't mean there aren't dozens of other ways to pass block available - we should not focus on the ONE thing we can't do YET when we could be maximizing the things we can do? Knowing that your O-line might not pick up a rusher is a recognition SKILL. Accounting for the possibility is a executive skill. It's not enough to recognize - you have to do something after recognizing. Madden players don't always recognize AND execute. Later

I'll start with your last paragraph first. Knowing my o-line might not pick up a rusher in this instance is not recognizing a defense, it's recognizing a Madden tactic. The video Bezo posted shows how to get pressure with 5 guys even against 7 lineman. If I'm in max protect and read 4-5 defenders rushing, basic football strategy tells me I should have time in the pocket.

For the rest, you are basically holding EA to zero accountability. Essentially what you are saying is that tactics like these are acceptable because the user on defense can manually control the db and prevent that guy from getting open.

I'm looking for an online experience where I really do rely on recognizing what my opponent is doing in football terms, not Madden terms.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kahuma

He was in between them, coverage-wise. Not like squeezed physically inbetween them. Noone was close enough to make physical contact with him. Reguardless he still could have attempted to make a defensive play and he did not.

If Davis was sitting down in the hole in the zone - the LBs shouldn't be able to get to him (that's what a hole in the zone is - a space the defenders can't cover - and it's not exactly "double coverage" either).

Basically, was it like this:

WLB in outside hook/buzz----------Davis----------MLB in middle hook zone

or

something like:

----------MLB cover 2 zone dropping back
-
-
---------Davis

----LB in Man on Davis


In either scenario, a good throw can make this play indefensible (which is why you make a good throw), in which case the defense should not have equal chances. Davis beat the coverage. Unless you make a weaker throw, this should be your win on this play.

I would think the fact the defense could even make this 50/50 is a problem.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

Every play in the NFL is a USER play. So what if the playing field isn't perfect. You think Ray Lewis complains when the field gets chewed up?

Incorrect.

Ray Lewis can't switch to Pollard and make Pollard run the coverage he should be running. Or he can't switch to Suggs to have him not bite on the draw because he's hell bent on getting to the QB. Lewis can't make Ellerbee or McClain play with his level of game sense and instinct by possessing them and controlling their movements. Lewis is awesome, he's not telekinetic.

Ngata can't switch to Webb and have Webb not incorrectly anticipate the out so that he's not beat because it's a double-move out-and-up.

Flacco can't control Boldin to have him adjust to his bad throw. He can't control Rice after he catches the check down. Flacco can only stand and watch (hopefully, not from his back).

Lewis is only in control of Lewis. That's it. If his teammates screw up, they screw up. Ngata can only do Ngata's job. Flacco can only hope Boldin adjusts to the ball better than the DB. He can only hope Rice sees the daylight.

So already it doesn't apply, because in Madden, you're able to be Flacco and throw the ball and possess the Boldin to adapt to your bad throw. You can make Rice find the daylight. You can be Ngata have Webb not be over-aggressive. You can be Lewis and have Suggs not bite on the draw.

You say all plays in the NFL are User plays - but don't mention that they are man-locked unable to switch out-of-body to control the rest of the team. There is no such restriction in Madden.

So to be REALLY sim - you don't switch and you don't control players other than the one you pick pre-snap (and you could argue you pick one guy - per game - Ngata can't decide he wants to be Cody or Lewis or Reed). If you're Ngata, you're Ngata. You can't impact the play more than Ngata could. THAT is the NFL, because that's what the real Ngata can do.

On offense, you're the QB. That's it. Once you throw it or hand it off. Have to trust your teammate. Think the real Flacco wouldn't want to have Rice cut back to the nice hole that Grubbs made that HE can see, but Rice can't because he's too busy watching Willis bearing down on him?

So no, I do think that "every play is a user play" isn't applicable to the NFL-Madden comparison because every play in Madden is one person possessing his whole team and I don't think the NFL works that way.

[pegout]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

So no, I do think that "every play is a user play" isn't applicable to the NFL-Madden comparison because every play in Madden is one person possessing his whole team and I don't think the NFL works that way.

i read your whole post and i get your point but in real life lewis CAN tell his teammates what to do on any givin play who to key in on,to not bite on the play action, he can tell the cb to watch the double move. every player is the user irl