I'm not understanding player progression or potential?

[cmo1qb17]

FunnyFiggy,
I was not saying to get rid of progression, I was saying to get rid of potential grades (if they are not going to have them work correctly). I remember previous madden games with no potential grades and progression worked much better. Instead of grades it should be a percentage bar. Every rookie that comes into the league should start with 0% of their potential fulfilled. A players percentage bar would be filled up by a combination of years in the league and games played in and plays played. Once the percentage bar reaches 100% that player has reached his full potential and would not be able to progress any further. Ratings would be able to increase and decrease throughout the remainder of their career but could never exceed what the were when potential was at 100%.(Think Chad Pennington with many good/bad years going back and forth). PROgression would be based on positive player performance, presence of team mentors on team at same position and/or coaches with position specific skills (think Brett Favre to Aaron Rodgers to Matt Flynn) and training/attitude/discipline if they ever put it in the game. REgression would be based on negative player performance, age, and injuries, also not training and negative attitude/discipline if ever in game. Injuries would have to be done correctly, ex: you should not lose awareness points for breaking your ankle. Also positive player performance would counteract regression due to age. So if a player kept his performance high and his progression bar was 100% full he wouldnt be able to gain any points but his rate of decline due to age would be slowed. Overall I feel this would be a much better system than what they have in place now. Like I said before, think Tom Brady and Kurt Warner. Their first year in the league Madden probably would have rated them in the 60's with C - F potential. There is no way a player with those grades could reach the 90's under the current system.

[steelsnarf]

Quote: Originally Posted by cmo1qb17

FunnyFiggy, I was not saying to get rid of progression, I was saying to get rid of potential grades (if they are not going to have them work correctly). I remember previous madden games with no potential grades and progression worked much better. Instead of grades it should be a percentage bar. Every rookie that comes into the league should start with 0% of their potential fulfilled. A players percentage bar would be filled up by a combination of years in the league and games played in and plays played. Once the percentage bar reaches 100% that player has reached his full potential and would not be able to progress any further. Ratings would be able to increase and decrease throughout the remainder of their career but could never exceed what the were when potential was at 100%.(Think Chad Pennington with many good/bad years going back and forth). PROgression would be based on positive player performance, presence of team mentors on team at same position and/or coaches with position specific skills (think Brett Favre to Aaron Rodgers to Matt Flynn) and training/attitude/discipline if they ever put it in the game. REgression would be based on negative player performance, age, and injuries, also not training and negative attitude/discipline if ever in game. Injuries would have to be done correctly, ex: you should not lose awareness points for breaking your ankle. Also positive player performance would counteract regression due to age. So if a player kept his performance high and his progression bar was 100% full he wouldnt be able to gain any points but his rate of decline due to age would be slowed. Overall I feel this would be a much better system than what they have in place now. Like I said before, think Tom Brady and Kurt Warner. Their first year in the league Madden probably would have rated them in the 60's with C - F potential. There is no way a player with those grades could reach the 90's under the current system.

I agree with this completely. The entire progression system needs improvement and the potential grades don't mean anything. Like in my situation the guy is 23 with an A potential, so one would think according to "madden logic" he would progress favorably. I remember back when I bought Madden 10 and they first introduced potential I thought it was a great idea, until I started a franchise with the Texans and Matt Schaub (rating in the 70's with a C or D potential I believe) passed for 4500+ yards and 30+ touchdowns and REgressed. At that point I knew something was wrong.

[football5680]

Progression basically affects how fast young players will progress and how high their potential can get. Johnson is past his progression phase so all he can do it go down or stay the same. occasionally players this old will go up but not very fast. After about the 3rd year players stop progressing.

[Argooos]

Quote: Originally Posted by steelsnarf

I thought I had a pretty good idea of how player progression worked, where rookies and 1 year pro guys almost always go up the most in their overall, regardless of potential, and the older they are the less they improve (in most cases.) But I've come across some things that annoy me a bit, I just completed a first year franchise with the Panthers and early in the season their starting RE (Charles Johnson, OVR 86, POT A) got put on IR in week 1. Now understandably he went down I believe it was 3 or 4 points overall, and that's reasonable to me since most injured reserve players do regress in some physical skills. But what doesn't make any sense whatsoever is Johnson's backup, (Everette Brown, OVR 70, POT A) filled in and had a respectably good season with nothing to show for it. This guy is in his 3rd year at age 23 with an A potential, and his stats were 44 solo, 23 assists, and 8 sacks. Guess how much he progressed at the end of the season? None. Still a 70 overall. Naturally being completely dumbfounded I decided to investigate, so I started another franchise with Carolina and put Everette Brown at the bottom of the depth chart seeing as he wouldn't get any play time. So he had no stats at all at the end of the season, and he was still a 70 overall! How did EA manage to screw something like that up. So I guy can have 40+ tackles with 8 sacks and not improve, or not play one down all year and have the exact same results? I'm starting to think progression is rigged..

I don't think what you're describing is actually a progression issue. I think it's a bug. I think certain players are bugged and will not progress no matter what. I'm currently running a 32-team-controll fantasy franchise, and a couple years in Everette Brown has not progressed at all. I've noticed the same with some other players, but Brown stood out because of his potential.
The good news is that you can manually edit the players, which I did. I have all sorts of fun with manual player progression. Players who win offensive/defensive player of the year get 99 OVR. 90+ OVR players who don't perform among the best at their position get regressed. Every Pro Bowl player gets at least a 90 rating. I also do mid-season progression where the few players that have performed well above or well below what their ratings suggest get their ratings changed. I've had 3rd string quarterbacks end up as starters because of mid-season progression. God I love being able to edit players in franchise mode!

[shoked]

Quote: Originally Posted by Argooos

I don't think what you're describing is actually a progression issue. I think it's a bug. I think certain players are bugged and will not progress no matter what. I'm currently running a 32-team-controll fantasy franchise, and a couple years in Everette Brown has not progressed at all. I've noticed the same with some other players, but Brown stood out because of his potential. The good news is that you can manually edit the players, which I did. I have all sorts of fun with manual player progression. Players who win offensive/defensive player of the year get 99 OVR. 90+ OVR players who don't perform among the best at their position get regressed. Every Pro Bowl player gets at least a 90 rating. I also do mid-season progression where the few players that have performed well above or well below what their ratings suggest get their ratings changed. I've had 3rd string quarterbacks end up as starters because of mid-season progression. God I love being able to edit players in franchise mode!

I'm tempted to edit ratings too but for me that's a slippery slope and I only play one team in offline franchise so it may not be fair to my competition.

Having no control over progression, regardless of potential, is maddening (pun). I would feel a little better if they still had the Training Camp feature where you could try improving certain players through mini-camp drills. Although even with that I recall it sometimes being worthless when my developmental QB would go down in ratings.

[lordnate]

I haven't played enough franchise to know for sure, but it seems like player progression is scripted. I think no matter what you do with a player (play him, bench him, whatever) he will always progress the same. They scripted some players to not progress even though they have A potential to make it look more realistic.

I've played franchise mode three different times with a fantasy draft, all three times I had Josh Freeman and B.J. Raji on my team. They both have A potential and are fairly young but never improved.

There needs to be some sort of progression system that the user can understand or else player management means nothing. If player management means nothing then franchise mode is pointless.

[Stan Down]

Here's an idea I had which may sound quite a bit ridiculous, every year players are given a draft grade and those who flash abilities that stand out are given grades according to the round they're are in most of the time. The idea is that a big board should be put in madden so when we scout were only given physical attributes and the potential of said player is labeled as " X ", durring the preseason the player is give his actual potential letter based on the players performance but the catch here is the letter given for potential is "not permanent". Say you draft an F potential it should be set that so that with experience and how he performs his grade can get higher but once he reaches a certain letter he'll plateau.

In Other words say you draft a running back in the later rounds and he has an F potential, and he puts up 1,200 yards on the ground and shows he can be the work horse after stringing together seasons of 900+ for consecutive seasons 2-3 his letter should go up to b, or c depending on his experience and the numbers he put up. This way you have a chance to develop players and find gems in the later rounds rather than everyone after the 4th and later rounds being given d or f and having to just draft and cut them. And players that are getting up there in age will decline and their potential will also decline as an A can go down all the way to a c and lower.

[lordnate]

Quote: Originally Posted by Stan Down

Here's an idea I had which may sound quite a bit ridiculous, every year players are given a draft grade and those who flash abilities that stand out are given grades according to the round they're are in most of the time. The idea is that a big board should be put in madden so when we scout were only given physical attributes and the potential of said player is labeled as " X ", durring the preseason the player is give his actual potential letter based on the players performance but the catch here is the letter given for potential is "not permanent". Say you draft an F potential it should be set that so that with experience and how he performs his grade can get higher but once he reaches a certain letter he'll plateau. In Other words say you draft a running back in the later rounds and he has an F potential, and he puts up 1,200 yards on the ground and shows he can be the work horse after stringing together seasons of 900+ for consecutive seasons 2-3 his letter should go up to b, or c depending on his experience and the numbers he put up. This way you have a chance to develop players and find gems in the later rounds rather than everyone after the 4th and later rounds being given d or f and having to just draft and cut them. And players that are getting up there in age will decline and their potential will also decline as an A can go down all the way to a c and lower.

Its at least an upgrade to the current system, but I have a problem. The problem is that some players in the real NFL are kept on the roster to develop, but don't actually see the field in their first 3 years. Once they become good enough, then they get playing time. (Tony Romo, James Harrison, and Miles Austin are good examples)

If you need stats to improve your potential, guys like that would never have become starters.

What I propose is a needs based system. Some players that come into the league are lazy. Some are raw in terms of technique or game knowledge. Some need to add weight. Some are injury prone. These are reasons why a player might not be as good as his potential. In my system, you would have coaches and training staffs that excel in different areas. Maybe your HC is a great motivator, making him good at coaching up the lazy guys. Maybe your HC is good at teaching fundamentals, which would make him good at coaching up raw players. You training staff might focus on building strength, which would improve players that haven't filled out completely. Or, your training staff might focus on injury prevention.

In doing it this way, you coaching staff and training staff actually matter and now you are targeting players that are the best fit rather than always targeting the best overall. Add in different play calling schemes that require players with different skill sets and you have a very complexed, realistic, yet easy to understand franchise mode.