bounty gate and the hitstick

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by bklyn85

Well with that in mind I really hope they will tone down the WWE style hits every other play and replace them with more organic wrap up tackles...

I was thinking the same thing when I read the post you replied to.

They must have missed those in the review process. If a LB threw a forearm like that, he'd be fined/suspended and a penalty, if not ejection.

[Ueauvan]

i thought helmet to helmet hits as part of a tackle were legal if they are a runner (or a receiver after catch who has established possession?). sorry if im wrong, im from over the pond

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chrisksaint

Hit Stick= realistic if there was an inclusion of more missed tackles. If you watch the NFL you see more missed tackles on big hits then actual big hits

Thinking about it further - the hit stick shouldn't even be necessary. When is a high POW, high TAK defender NOT going to try to hit hard. Think about the best tacklers in the game - they often hit hard AND successfully.

If that's what these ratings are supposed to represent - someone who hits hard but has no technique (High POW, Low TAK), he should miss more, but when he connects, it's powerful. Low-Average POW + High TAK should almost always be a break-down-and-wrap type tackler, using good form tackles in position and being able to adapt and still make some kind of tackle when somewhat off balance. This guy should be very hard to juke/spin/stiff arm out of his tackles.

If the ratings are doing their jobs and the defenders are doing their jobs, why do we need the hit stick anyway? The tackle button should take these ratings in, along with the Big Hitter trait (though, why need that...99 POW is not a big hitter? Really?) should do the job.

Make the hit stick more a "tackling moves" stick or something. Do you tackle low, high, which angle you're coming from, etc.

[Senator Palmer]

I'm with Kb on this one. Usually, I'm never in favor of taking things away from the user, but big hits should be tied to ratings and momentum.

Shooting your hands, and extending your arms is just one of the many ways they teach linebackers to defeat blocks. I've felt for a while that there wasn't enough control over how a user defender works their hands when engaged to extend, or rip through a block. Personally, at this point, I'd find the right stick a lot more useful as an engagement tool... even having it to reach tackle like another game would add value.

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Thinking about it further - the hit stick shouldn't even be necessary. When is a high POW, high TAK defender NOT going to try to hit hard. Think about the best tacklers in the game - they often hit hard AND successfully. If that's what these ratings are supposed to represent - someone who hits hard but has no technique (High POW, Low TAK), he should miss more, but when he connects, it's powerful. Low-Average POW + High TAK should almost always be a break-down-and-wrap type tackler, using good form tackles in position and being able to adapt and still make some kind of tackle when somewhat off balance. This guy should be very hard to juke/spin/stiff arm out of his tackles. If the ratings are doing their jobs and the defenders are doing their jobs, why do we need the hit stick anyway? The tackle button should take these ratings in, along with the Big Hitter trait (though, why need that...99 POW is not a big hitter? Really?) should do the job. Make the hit stick more a "tackling moves" stick or something. Do you tackle low, high, which angle you're coming from, etc.

I disagree. To me, (and this is just my interpretation) the hit stick is an aggressive tackle designed to force the ball loose. Its a risk reward hit where as just running into the guy is more of a safe wrap up tackle.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kaiser Wilhelm

I disagree. To me, (and this is just my interpretation) the hit stick is an aggressive tackle designed to force the ball loose. Its a risk reward hit where as just running into the guy is more of a safe wrap up tackle.

And I ask the same question - why don't defenders use their Hit Power rating to knock the ball loose? If Hit Power is supposed to represent how hard they hit when they tackle - high POW should always be an aggressive, hard-hitting tackle.

Or, just have a DPP trait. Aggressive tacklers will try this stuff more than Conservative ones. Also brings another risk-reward of maybe an aggressive tackler with mediocre actual technique, but a big hitter. Is the possible turnover worth a key missed tackle? If he misses - maybe he gets conservative and now you have a tentative average tackler?

I just think there's more dynamic and risk-reward aware ways of doing it than just pushing the hit stick around until you get a big hit - and considering I have little guys making "big hits" (and no big hitter or high POW) with the hit stick - it's silly, imo. Little Deion Sanders type corner destroying people with average tackling because I "timed the hit stick right".

Meanwhile, using the former hit stick to introduce more skill in tackling makes it even more dynamic and challenging.

[Big FN Deal]

Normally I am right there with you KB and I am somewhat on this too but I don't mind the "hit stick" as long as more risk/reward is added to it. I am all for gamers having the choice to attempt whatever they want, including trying to hit stick say Brandon Jacobs with 5'8 178 pound DB Allen Rossum, as long as the result is realistic.

I believe using the hit stick with low TAK and/or low POW should result in not only unsuccessful tackles but increased chance of a personal foul penalty (helmet to helmet, horse collar, leading with the helmet, etc) and injury to the defender (neck jamming, stinger, dislocated shoulder, etc).

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Normally I am right there with you KB and I am somewhat on this too but I don't mind the "hit stick" as long as more risk/reward is added to it. I am all for gamers having the choice to attempt whatever they want, including trying to hit stick say Brandon Jacobs with 5'8 178 pound DB Allen Rossum, as long as the result is realistic. I believe using the hit stick with low TAK and/or low POW should result in not only unsuccessful tackles but increased chance of a personal foul penalty (helmet to helmet, horse collar, leading with the helmet, etc) and injury to the defender (neck jamming, stinger, dislocated shoulder, etc).

I hear you, but I just think the realistic result would be Rossum not even trying to "hit stick" Jacobs.

I like the idea of the increase chances of mistakes and injury you bring up, though.

Rossum is probably going to try to cut out Jacobs' legs, and if the "hit stick" was a "tackle technique chooser" then you could choose that, bringing more strategy and instant-decision with tackling in order to get the most effectiveness out of whatever TAK and POW defender you're using.