Why Madden NEEDS a defensive commit

[dirtguru]

All of the ideas brought up in this thread added to proper line interaction would definately push Madden very close to being an accurate simulation of football.

As Senator Palmer pointed out there has been some discussion of this in the past. Currently it seems that EA feels the problem that may arise from more accurate simulation style of football may be the alienation of a large portion of the online community which may or may not represent a loss in overall sales?
Stick skills of course would still apply but adding the features mentioned would likely require a lot of players to learn an entirely new method of playing Madden.
I think all of us involved in this discussion would very much like to see Madden go in this direction. Realistically, I wouldn't expect much unless EA has been working on this for more than one development cycle......I sure hope that is the case!!!!

[macbranson]

I think it's a great idea and would definitely add to the ability to sway some more advantage to the defense. Besides, I think the current system of defensive player audibles is way too time consuming. I would definitely vote for the addition of a feature like this.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

An AI defender can and will defend each of the problem routes mentioned in this article if he's given the proper instructions pre-snap without adding another new function that User's might not use.

Yes and no.

Usually I just zone the MLB since the arrow route, if run from the backfield, will angle towards the middle of the field, and usually reach the middle of the field if run elsewhere - so if the QB tries to anticipate, the MLB is there.

That said, LBs don't exactly play their zones well a lot of times, imo, especially on default settings. They tend to "wander" and drift too much, even if they have good AWR, PRC, and ZCV ratings.

I use Buzz zones, etc. I like zone coverage a lot of times and expect a lot from my LBs so I don't blitz them much, etc. So they are there to make plays, or at least should be. I shift them, slide them, pinch/spread them.

I don't expect them to somehow change their assignment after the snap, but I do expect a middle hook zone that's supposed to be 6-8 yds out not to turn into a buzz zone for whatever reason or a 12 yd drifting back to give away the area he's supposed to be sitting down in.

When I have to audible to a spy to get him to actually just SIT in his zone, I think that's a problem.

Of course, if I had more control and could actually dictate exact spots on the field (take 5 steps back and watch THIS area and DON'T FREAKING MOVE), then that would not only put more onus on me to design/scheme better, I also get better assignment control over the players.

[NorrinRadd12]

The old "run/pass commit" should be brought back and done right. It didn't work previously because "run commit" turned into pass defense because you would get tremendous pressure.

How it should be...

If you run commit and the offense runs = stuffed or close to it
If you run commit and the offense passes = minimal pass rush, back 7 doesn't cover as well as they should.
If you run commit and the offense does play action = get your kickoff return team ready.

If you pass commit and the offense passes = heavy pass rush, good coverage
If you pass commit and the offense runs = good run blocking, LBs a little slow to react
If you pass commit and the offense calls a draw or screen = big yardage

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by NorrinRadd12

The old "run/pass commit" should be brought back and done right. It didn't work previously because "run commit" turned into pass defense because you would get tremendous pressure. How it should be... If you run commit and the offense runs = stuffed or close to it If you run commit and the offense passes = minimal pass rush, back 7 doesn't cover as well as they should. If you run commit and the offense does play action = get your kickoff return team ready. If you pass commit and the offense passes = heavy pass rush, good coverage If you pass commit and the offense runs = good run blocking, LBs a little slow to react If you pass commit and the offense calls a draw or screen = big yardage

I can't be the only person that LOL at this. Can someone refer me to any Madden, ever, that has been a good representation of NFL football at that time?

I remember things like Mass substitutions, personnel packages coming on and off the field, player roles and some other franchise stuff being realistic but not the gameplay. However, I admittedly began to play Madden less and less after NFL2k debuted on the Dreamcast in 2000, except for at family/friends get togethers. So I would appreciate being directed to and made aware of the most realistic Madden to date.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by NorrinRadd12

The old "run/pass commit" should be brought back and done right. It didn't work previously because "run commit" turned into pass defense because you would get tremendous pressure. How it should be... If you run commit and the offense runs = stuffed or close to it If you run commit and the offense passes = minimal pass rush, back 7 doesn't cover as well as they should. If you run commit and the offense does play action = get your kickoff return team ready. If you pass commit and the offense passes = heavy pass rush, good coverage If you pass commit and the offense runs = good run blocking, LBs a little slow to react If you pass commit and the offense calls a draw or screen = big yardage

This is EXACTLY why I cannot agree with this. I'm not going to let EA tell me how football works when I know otherwise. Let's take a look at that second one you have outlined as an example.

Quote:

If you run commit and the offense passes = minimal pass rush, back 7 doesn't cover as well as they should

Let me start with the back four (2CB's and 2 Safety's). Unless they are blitzing 9 times out of 10 their first step is always a back pedal looking for the pass first. Now some calls like 3 Buzz might have one of your Safety's playing force but to have a mechanic in the game that tells everybody to play run, I just don't agree with it.

Let me take another one. You pass commit the offense passes and you get a heavy pass rush. I don't like it. Even if you do not have the horses then you get a heavy pass rush? People are already complaining that ratings mean nothing. This would be another mechanic that adds to that complaint.

If you pass commit and the offense runs the the linebackers play soft. Don't like it. As a linebacker for the most part you always play run first. Down and distance becomes a factor at times but most of the time you are playing run first. There are some obvious situations in which you will play pass first.

I just don't think having a mechanic like this is a great idea. It's too all or nothing and that's just not how defensive football players are trained. They are trained to read and react. And I think to get a read and react defense it is best to implement run fits and get the fundamental right. No more band aids.

[Senator Palmer]

^ I still like my clipboard idea or some variation of making sideline adjustments to what guys should look for, but this right here sums up how I feel about the other side of the argument. Any defensive commit feature that resembles the one that LBz quoted is a step back. If you want to play a cover 2 yet still have the safeties key run first, then you need to call a different defense.

[NorrinRadd12]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Let me start with the back four (2CB's and 2 Safety's). Unless they are blitzing 9 times out of 10 their first step is always a back pedal looking for the pass first. Now some calls like 3 Buzz might have one of your Safety's playing force but to have a mechanic in the game that tells everybody to play run, I just don't agree with it.

Safeties get caught with their eyes in the backfield all the time.

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Let me take another one. You pass commit the offense passes and you get a heavy pass rush. I don't like it. Even if you do not have the horses then you get a heavy pass rush? People are already complaining that ratings mean nothing. This would be another mechanic that adds to that complaint.

Heavy in correlation to their ratings. I was going to put that in originally but I assumed it would be understood.

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

If you pass commit and the offense runs the the linebackers play soft. Don't like it. As a linebacker for the most part you always play run first. Down and distance becomes a factor at times but most of the time you are playing run first. There are some obvious situations in which you will play pass first.

And those are the situations you use pass commit.

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

I just don't think having a mechanic like this is a great idea. It's too all or nothing and that's just not how defensive football players are trained. They are trained to read and react. And I think to get a read and react defense it is best to implement run fits and get the fundamental right. No more band aids.

You're right it would be all or nothing, but only when you use the feature. And I don't think the feature would be used as much as you're assuming. Maybe 10-20% of the time. The other 80-90% would be the "read and react" you're talking about.