Why Madden NEEDS a defensive commit

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by NorrinRadd12

That's a big IF.

You are correct. LOL

[mvb34]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL

You make a valid point here, and I do agree. There is no need for any feature if all the fundamentals are right, and the player ratings factor in the way they should. That alone would solve alot, and make play calling and match ups a huge factor. I still would want something to alert my defense to look for a screen or a draw play . Actually not my whole defense just the defensive line.

This, because I don't think Madden will ever get to point where guys like LB, Bezo, and others talked about. So can defensive commit is needed..

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by mvb34

This, because I don't think Madden will ever get to point where guys like LB, Bezo, and others talked about. So can defensive commit is needed..

Not directing this at the Poster just commenting on the sentiment of the post. When we all submit to this reality, that Madden will only slowly progress and presumably never get to where we all want it, we are essentially self fulfilling prophecy as a community. Even when Ian seemingly tried to create a better Madden, he was deriving some things from the requests of many in the Madden community with a skewed POV of football and football gaming based on Madden's legacy, imo.

Madden06-08 I pretty much chalk up to "trial and error" but M09 to present is just as much the fault of the community at large, as EA, imo. Besides a small minority I don't know many in the Madden community as a whole that criticized or had a problem with Ian Cummings and others constantly espoused "realism-fun balance", initially. It wasn't until that POV produced Madden10-11 that more people began to express their displeasure and some even liked it. The point being, I don't feel like Ian and those guys "sold wolf tickets" about realism in Madden. I think they gave the majority of gamers the "fun" they had been asking for on paper but then some just didn't like the end result, when actually practiced.

For example, Ian came out and pretty much said that many of the legacy presnap adjustments in Madden were unrealistic but the community as a whole was still clamoring for more to be added. lol. That caused yet another unrealistic feature needing to be added to compensate, rinse and repeat, continually pulling at any fundamental football "threads" in Madden until the whole thing is unraveled.

"Defensive commit" would inevitably lead to "Offensive fake" then "Defensive fake commit" which leads to "Offensive reset" then "Defensive commit reset" which leads to...............

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL

I still would want something to alert my defense to look for a screen or a draw play . Actually not my whole defense just the defensive line.

But shouldn't that just be with PRC/AWR?

Otherwise, what's the point of the ratings? If PRC (Play Recognition) is doing it's job, the defense will "commit" on their own at a time based on how fast they read the play. Same with AWR.

While I don't think it's a bad idea at all, I just wonder if ratings are doing their job and the fundamentals are in, is there really a need for it on an absolute level?

I mean, if your defenders are smart, you're just stating what they already are going to see developing. If they are clueless, it will probably still be too late to stop the play, even if you tell them? (You say "watch the *%&(#&* draw!", they are like, "okay!", but then the offense runs a different draw or from a different formation - and they still get confused.)

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

But shouldn't that just be with PRC/AWR? Otherwise, what's the point of the ratings? If PRC (Play Recognition) is doing it's job, the defense will "commit" on their own at a time based on how fast they read the play. Same with AWR. While I don't think it's a bad idea at all, I just wonder if ratings are doing their job and the fundamentals are in, is there really a need for it on an absolute level? I mean, if your defenders are smart, you're just stating what they already are going to see developing. If they are clueless, it will probably still be too late to stop the play, even if you tell them? (You say "watch the *%&(#&* draw!", they are like, "okay!", but then the offense runs a different draw or from a different formation - and they still get confused.)

I'm looking at this from the point when I was in the huddle playing defense we would discuss in the huddle to be aware of the screen or draw play. I just want the same in the game.

What this would do also is to a point slow down the rush a bit with certain lineman to make sure they dont get caught with either the screen or draw play. This is why you can't choose to communicate this all the time, and its important on when to communicate it.

You are goiing to sacrafice the rush for a second to make sure and that leaves another second for the QB.

To me this is a little deeper than just plain awareness. There have been teams in the past that were very good in running the screen play, and teams knew this , but if they did not look for it specifically they would get burnt over and over again. You really needed to bring it up in the huddle.

Especially on 2nd or 3rd and long I want to be able to tell my team to look for the screen or draw play.Its a little deeper than just having good awareness. This has to be communicated to the defense.

I see no difference with this than calling a defense to stop the run or the pass, but now I want to be able to tell them to look for the screen or draw play.

It is a offensive play and there are no plays in the defensive playbook designed to look for it, so I want the option to make my defense look for it. Especially when I know it's coming

[Broncos86]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL

I see no difference with this than calling a defense to stop the run or the pass, but now I want to be able to tell them to look for the screen or draw play. It is a offensive play and there are no plays in the defensive playbook designed to look for it, so I want the option to make my defense look for it. Especially when I know it's coming

Fan your defensive line. The ends will essentially sit at the edge instead of pass rush, and it can really negate a screen quickly.

[Senator Palmer]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

Fan your defensive line. The ends will essentially sit at the edge instead of pass rush, and it can really negate a screen quickly.

Is that what it's designed to do, though? I know that when I spread my line and edge rush I'm looking for the line to sell out to get to the quarterback which is what it was supposed to be designed to do. But I have noticed that it is also effective at stopping screens and outside runs. I like that I don't get burned and that my ends will react to a secondary key, but that leads me to the question, do they have a key at all?

From what I see, "edge rush" isn't really communicating with the linemen to pass rush; it's just changing their movement. For all I can tell, they are still reading the same thing. I've never seen an end sit, or contain rush when I spread the line, or edge rush it. They always get upfield the same. Now I know that NCAA didn't have "edge rush." Up on the r-stick put the ends in a "contain" which is supposed to be designed to stop option, or screens, but Madden was supposed to be strictly a pass rushing mechanic. Madden doesn't have any of the systems NCAA has to tell your defense to play differently -- i.e. safe tackles vs. big hits, aggressive pass rush vs. balanced. Madden just changes playart. I can't tell my linebacker to look for a quick slant. I can hot route him to a buzz zone, but that's just a movement call. He's just as likely to drift 8 yards and let the receiver cross his face than he is to actually read something different.

So, when I change my line to get upfield, and my end happens to peel off and make a play on a screen, that's more due to this year's unrealistic programming in the way edge players perform in this game, than it is to a strategy I implored.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL

I'm looking at this from the point when I was in the huddle playing defense we would discuss in the huddle to be aware of the screen or draw play. I just want the same in the game. What this would do also is to a point slow down the rush a bit with certain lineman to make sure they dont get caught with either the screen or draw play. This is why you can't choose to communicate this all the time, and its important on when to communicate it. You are goiing to sacrafice the rush for a second to make sure and that leaves another second for the QB. To me this is a little deeper than just plain awareness. There have been teams in the past that were very good in running the screen play, and teams knew this , but if they did not look for it specifically they would get burnt over and over again. You really needed to bring it up in the huddle. Especially on 2nd or 3rd and long I want to be able to tell my team to look for the screen or draw play.Its a little deeper than just having good awareness. This has to be communicated to the defense. I see no difference with this than calling a defense to stop the run or the pass, but now I want to be able to tell them to look for the screen or draw play. It is a offensive play and there are no plays in the defensive playbook designed to look for it, so I want the option to make my defense look for it. Especially when I know it's coming

I am looking at it like this. We already have unrealistic offensive hot routes and audibles along with other unrealistic defensive presnap adjustments, why continue to build on that, opposed to adding things to make them unnecessary?

With defensive commit in Madden, a defense could call an overload blitz from the right side and also tell the defense to watch for a right side screen. Now I am by no means some football genius but I do know that is essentially removing the risk/reward of calling that defensive play and potentially getting burnt by a screen behind it. The point is, if as a play caller, the User or CPU is wary of a certain call, that would and should be reflected in the play called, not some secondary unrealistic Madden mechanic.

To me the team aspect of football is severely lacking in Madden, the individual limitations of every position, including coaches and management, that cause everybody to depend on someone else doing their job. Madden allows the User and CPU to often negate or override those limitations when wearing those "hats" and defensive commit would be yet another example of that.