Why Madden NEEDS a defensive commit

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

Yeah, you kinda need to get creative with it right now. I haven't tried this in NCAA, but I wonder if choosing a pass commit would be effective on a screen? Part of me thinks that the tools offered in NCAA 12 would be effective and appropriate. If your opponent keeps using screens, tell your team to play the pass and get a defender man-locked on the RB. Or tell the defense to key on the RB.

That sounds good to me. One method I use is I would take the defensive end on the side the HB is lining up at. Hot route him to QB contain. Then take the LB that is covering the HB , and cover him right from the snap of the ball beating the blockers to the spot.

I usually love being the safety, but when I play someone who loves running the screen. I have to change my preferences since there is nothing in the game that is for stopping the screen play. It's all manual and creativity for now

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Senator Palmer

I read before the Super Bowl that Fewell lets his linemen call their own stunts from time to time. This is the kind of on the fly control I'm hitting at.

Sounds like a perfect place for AWR/PRC to represent this. A center with high AWR/PRC can help the whole line perform better by making the right line calls. The T and see zone blitz switch and communicate to the G that his man that showed blitz pre-snap is dropping back and that he needs to take the guy the T has to pass off to respond to the SS who is coming.

Also, if "some players are better than others" at communicating - sounds like either a trait, role, or rating is needed (I prefer trait/role). Players with this role/high in this trait communicate what they see.

I want the players to do it on the field. If Ray sees a draw going, have him yell it out as he sees it - then the defense can go on the fly to the adjustments they know to make. OLBs that were dropping in zone now key on run. The DEs abandon their upfield moves quicker, DBs switch from coverage to run support quicker/more decisively, etc.

To me, that's much more organic and life like while capturing the need to communicate on the field. Ray called it out, now the defense is adjusting. Maybe Ray is injured, so McClain has to be Mike - he might not call it out, didn't recognize/wasn't confident/didn't trust his eyes, etc - and now the defense doesn't react as quickly.

Put in a "Communicator" role for LBs and DLs and then make this limited to having one of these guys on your team. Would make it based on a per-player ability, allow it in the game, give defenses with communicator role players more effective, and fleshes out the role system more. Put I would prefer if it's just fundamental defensive behavior - not a new mechanic. If on-the-fly communication is common to all defenses - it should be part of the player behavior with effectiveness/frequency/correctness based on player ability.

I don't want to god-mode it and then they all do it and then I'm able to do it with an inexperienced rookie MLB just the same as a guy like Ray, because it's just a mechanic in the game not tied to any player abilities, much like how 30 AWR QB can hot route and audible stuff all day and low AWR WR/HB can just keep up with no ill effects to the offensive performance on that play.

[Big FN Deal]

@Tyrant and Senator, I don't think defensive commit would realistically accomplish what you are describing though.

Correct me if I am wrong but what you are saying is, you want a way to counter a play you believe is coming based on what the offense has already done. So you would believe a certain play is coming based on; 1)the personnel package, which can be seen before you pick a defensive play, 2) down/distance, again which can be seen before you pick a def play and/or 3)the offensive formation/motion/some "key", which occurs on the field presnap.

Now, if Madden implemented assignments and responsibilities into the plays, had individual AI player ad lib according to applicable ratings and the continued benefit of the User controlling one player, I don't see where defensive commit is necessary to provide what you want.

1 and 2 could be addressed in the playcall screen before getting on the field and 3 could be addressed with an applicable audible, if Madden had better play based assignments and responsibility. Then that ends up making Gameplanning and pregame preparation way more "deep" and required for success instead of the alleged "fun" of blindly rolling outta bed into a game of Madden, to win with 1-4 on-field "adjustable" defensive plays.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

@Tyrant and Senator, I don't think defensive commit would realistically accomplish what you are describing though. Correct me if I am wrong but what you are saying is, you want a way to counter a play you believe is coming based on what the offense has already done. So you would believe a certain play is coming based on; 1)the personnel package, which can be seen before you pick a defensive play, 2) down/distance, again which can be seen before you pick a def play and/or 3)the offensive formation/motion/some "key", which occurs on the field presnap. Now, if Madden implemented assignments and responsibilities into the plays, had individual AI player ad lib according to applicable ratings and the continued benefit of the User controlling one player, I don't see where defensive commit is necessary to provide what you want. 1 and 2 could be addressed in the playcall screen before getting on the field and 3 could be addressed with an applicable audible, if Madden had better play based assignments and responsibility. Then that ends up making Gameplanning and pregame preparation way more "deep" and required for success instead of the alleged "fun" of blindly rolling outta bed into a game of Madden, to win with 1-4 on-field "adjustable" defensive plays.

I don't want a defensive commit feature. I agree that with what was said by others earlier on in this thread that a defensive commit feature is not authentic, and is a gimmick.

I just want something that would allow me more flexibility in adding to my defensive play calling. Im fine with the basic of defensive play calling , and then being able to shift the LB's and lineman as I see fit.

I just really want the defensive hot routes, and some more assignments added to it. Like assigning a player to look for the draw or screen.

Like in the old madden telling a DB to play more to the inside or outside of a receiver. Those options to tinker your defense. In the NFL they just don't call 4-3 cover 2 man. They also say Revis watch for the slant on this one, or Ray LEwis would be calling out wathc for the draw! etc etc.

I want this to be a option when I play defense. I don't see this as a defensive commit, but more of a way to expand on what your calling.

There is the play you can in the huddle, and then the adjustments you call before the ball is snap. That is all I want.

[Big FN Deal]

Picture having to put together a pregame Gameplan, being stuck utilizing that for the first half with only having minor on the fly adjustments during the game, the option to make in-depth adjustments in the locker room at halftime and having to finish the game from there.

I don't believe there are many players on each team that have the freedom on defense to "freestyle"/ad lib like Revis. Troy Polamolu, Ed Reed and Ray Lewis immediately come to mind but I remember Laron Landry TRYING to do it, often getting my Redskins CBs burned in the process. Anyway, the point is most defenses count on working as a cohesive unit with each player counting on another to do what the play calls for them to do. So players that are capable of making their own adjustments and reads, should be doing so through the Madden AI based on rating/DPP but the rest, aside from the one the User has complete control over, should be attempting to execute the play call, imo.

Also, I think I just realized what LBz meant by player focus, which is using the defensive "highlight" to have the defense keying on a specific player. That might also be a realistic way to accomplish what some are asking for, if it worked properly.

Overall it seems to me that what is being asked for would essentially be a "shortcut" to playing better defense instead of realistic defensive adjustments being made.

For example, I can understand people saying that the defense should NOT be biting on a playaction pass on 3rd & long or at the end of the 2nd/4th quarters. However, that is an issue with the defensive AI logic in Madden that needs to be programmed for down and distance awareness, not a reason to add another unrealistic counter.

Another example, I understand wanting to have a counter for repeated screen passes and/or draw plays but I think Bezo's request for tiered play calling, at least available for pregame and halftime Gameplanning, is a realistic fix. This would allow the defense to combine various plays with less initially aggressive DL fronts so they could potentially better diagnose screens/draws at the LOS.

To clarify, I am not saying people want an arcade game just because they want a way to attempt to coach up their players and have them be alert for trickery because that is itself, realistic. However, I think this video kind of illustrates that while the defense communicating on the field is a part of football, it's secondary and reaction based, with the defensive play call/Gameplanning being paramount to most defenders initial actions.

I think we want the same thing but I am focusing more on what that inherent process of "hot routing" to defend a screen, draw or PA pass would entail. It's like with the no huddle offense currently in Madden, it's a realistic premise but in the game it's doesn't have a realistic process. I hope people get what I am trying to say in this seemingly long drawn out post. lol

[Tyrant8RDFL]

@ BIG FN DEAL

I totally get what your stating, but what you feel tends to be a more natural way of play calling is not 100% accurate.

Like I stated there's the play in the huddle, then there's the on the fly communication with players. It more than just players adjusting on their own.

Don't get me wrong there is that also. Your correct there, but there is the on the fly communication to.

In the end its a video game and they can only do but so much. I personally would like more defensive hot route options. To give me more depth in my defensive play calling.

I don't see how this is arcade or wrong.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL

@ BIG FN DEAL I totally get what your stating, but what you feel tends to be a more natural way of play calling is not 100% accurate. Like I stated there's the play in the huddle, then there's the on the fly communication with players. It more than just players adjusting on their own. Don't get me wrong there is that also. Your correct there, but there is the on the fly communication to. In the end its a video game and they can only do but so much. I personally would like more defensive hot route options. To give me more depth in my defensive play calling. I don't see how this is arcade or wrong.

I get what you are saying too but while the premise of the idea is definitely NOT arcade the in-game process if implemented in current Madden would most likely be.

There are playaction passes, no huddle offense, pass interference, screen passes, draw plays, Man Under defense, defensive assignments, etc, which while NFL realistic in theory, do NOT playout NFL realistic in Madden.

I think a User feature attempting to manually have CPU controlled in-game players read and react to specific plays, before or rather than, programming AI for in-game players to read and react to everything based on ratings, would be continue the aforementioned trend.