Madden vs Real Football

[Soprano00]

We all know plays abused by cheesers and unfair gamers in Madden. Question is why those plays are a good choice in Madden and not in Real Football ?

I'm talking about:

A) Going for it on 4th down instead of punting. Why is in Madden almost always convenient to do it ?

B) Online kicks. Why everybody does it in Madden while is quite rare to see it in RF ?

C) QB scrambles. Same questions.

D) No huddle all the time. Same questions.

E) Punt return. Practically everybody goes for the fair catch.

What shall EA do in the next Madden release to fix these issues ?
Shall EA enforce a "sim" mode that disallow those practices except for the 4th quarter ?

[DUDERMAN]

Quote: Originally Posted by Soprano00

We all know plays abused by cheesers and unfair gamers in Madden. Question is why those plays are a good choice in Madden and not in Real Football ? I'm talking about: A) Going for it on 4th down instead of punting. Why is in Madden almost always convenient to do it ? B) Online kicks. Why everybody does it in Madden while is quite rare to see it in RF ? C) QB scrambles. Same questions. D) No huddle all the time. Same questions. E) Punt return. Practically everybody goes for the fair catch. What shall EA do in the next Madden release to fix these issues ? Shall EA enforce a "sim" mode that disallow those practices except for the 4th quarter ?

I get a hint of sarcasm from your post but I'll entertain it anyway.

A) In Madden, nothing is really on the line. In the real NFL, every game is important. Statistically, teams don't often have success going for it on 4th down. If you fail to convert, you are giving your opponent great field position which you never want to do. The only times you should go for it on 4th down (in madden and in the real NFL) are when you are down in the 4th quarter or just outside your kickers range and are within 5 yards of the 1st down marker. Even then, it's usually a better idea to punt.

B) Not sure what you mean. Kicked from the game? Yea that would be something to see in the NFL, just the entire team getting booted off the field.

C) QB's do scramble in the NFL but it's almost always as a last resort. You see it mainly on 3rd downs when they need to convert and everyone is covered down field. Players in Madden, however, will pick a designed pass play and never even look down field. The hike the ball and start running. This wouldn't work well in the nfl, the QB would be on IR by week 3.

D) Madden has a stamina rating but it doesn't seem to affect performance, it only says when a player will be pulled out for rest. In the real NFL, players are human. Humans get tired, when they get tired they make mistakes. You see the no huddle when teams need to conserve time on the clock or they feel the defense is using a favorable package.

F) Players call fair catch in the NFL when they feel there isn't enough room to catch and run. The last thing they want is to take a big hit which leads to possible injury and/or a turnover. In Madden, you are more likely to fumble if you don't have the room but I go back to Answer A... nothing is on the line in Madden.

Madden players don't have any emotional or financial investment in their players. The players aren't concerned about their health or contract status, they blindly do what you tell them to. Madden is a game, a machine, it has cracks in it that people will try to chip away at to gain an advantage. They had fair play rules way back when but many people complained so they reverted back. It's sad to see more people don't like to play the way football was meant to be played. I guess that's why I only play online franchise now, and only with people i know.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Soprano00

A) Going for it on 4th down instead of punting. Why is in Madden almost always convenient to do it ?

You have nothing to lose (except maybe pride) if it doesn't work. Of course, you don't really GET anything either (except maybe pride and bragging rights if you're playing a buddy or something), but the lack of losing usually is a bigger motivator.

Not to mention, some guys might have "money" plays or whatnot or if it's 4th and short - probably too easy to pick up a lot of times. I mean in 4th and 1 - come out in 4 WR to spread the defense - how many people are going to look run? Plus, if you did, they probably just audible to a pass and exploit the LBs on the slot WRs. So draws and such are easy few yards to convert.

Quote: Originally Posted by Soprano00

B) Online kicks. Why everybody does it in Madden while is quite rare to see it in RF ?

See A) - plus it might be too easy to pull off in Madden. I know success in recovering onside kicks in then NFL is low, even with a surprise onside kick.

Quote: Originally Posted by Soprano00

C) QB scrambles. Same questions.

Combo of OL/DL play, the "reaction" of the LBs, a lot of QBs are at least decent runners (many QBs 70+ in SPD with decent AGI, ACC). In the real game OL/DL/LB play wouldn't allow a lot of what happens, imo. Plus the QB would get worn out with all that running around, not to mention the injury risk. But again, some of this goes back to A).

Quote: Originally Posted by Soprano00

D) No huddle all the time. Same questions.

Often times, the offense wants to switch up personnel like the defense. Also the fatigue system might favor the offense too much (they don't get tired as much as the defense - plus the offense sort of speed boosts (even the fat linemen) while the defense doesn't.

There is a fatigue system, but it isn't severe enough. Of course, if it is was, it might make this even more effective, but if the offense wore out as well, then it might be harder to continually succeed on offense (incompletes,
sacks, injuries, etc)

In Madden, personnel packages can be (but not always) less important. The fail-safe audibles (no chances of miscommunication/lower AWR guys getting mixed up sometimes) adds to the no-risk aspect of it.

Quote: Originally Posted by Soprano00

E) Punt return. Practically everybody goes for the fair catch.

See A)

Quote: Originally Posted by Soprano00

Shall EA enforce a "sim" mode that disallow those practices except for the 4th quarter ?

Please no.

I'd rather them fix the actual football instead of another shortcut. If the football works as it should, some of these will fix themselves while the others become much more high-risk, which then gives the other team a chance for a play. Not just anyone could pull it off, so more stops might cause more losses, etc.

I'd rather that than just a "you can't do it". There's no such rule in real football, after all. See the Saints' surprise onside kick in the SUPER BOWL, to start the second half. Real coaches gamble, they just know the risks. Madden needs the risks, not to forbid aggressive/risky calls.

[Soprano00]

Quote: Originally Posted by DUDERMAN

I get a hint of sarcasm from your post but I'll entertain it anyway.

No sarcasm, really. I'm not a big football connoisseur and therefore I'm asking. I'm not native English speaker as well and therefore my words may sound weird at times Thanks for answering, please check below.

Quote: Originally Posted by DUDERMAN

A) In Madden, nothing is really on the line. In the real NFL, every game is important. Statistically, teams don't often have success going for it on 4th down. If you fail to convert, you are giving your opponent great field position which you never want to do. The only times you should go for it on 4th down (in madden and in the real NFL) are when you are down in the 4th quarter or just outside your kickers range and are within 5 yards of the 1st down marker. Even then, it's usually a better idea to punt.

I understand but still: people in Madden play to win and if nobody punts means that going for it, in Madden, is statistically more convenient than punting. I mean: I personally punt because I think that regaining 40 yards and giving possession is a better choice than risking to go for it on the 4th, but obviously I'm wrong, as almost everybody doesn't punt (unless they are in their 10-20 yards).

Quote: Originally Posted by DUDERMAN

B) Not sure what you mean. Kicked from the game? Yea that would be something to see in the NFL, just the entire team getting booted off the field.

I meant Onside, not Online LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by DUDERMAN

C) QB's do scramble in the NFL but it's almost always as a last resort. You see it mainly on 3rd downs when they need to convert and everyone is covered down field. Players in Madden, however, will pick a designed pass play and never even look down field. The hike the ball and start running. This wouldn't work well in the nfl, the QB would be on IR by week 3.

So what shall EA change in game to address this problem ?

Quote: Originally Posted by DUDERMAN

Madden players don't have any emotional or financial investment in their players. The players aren't concerned about their health or contract status, they blindly do what you tell them to. Madden is a game, a machine, it has cracks in it that people will try to chip away at to gain an advantage. They had fair play rules way back when but many people complained so they reverted back. It's sad to see more people don't like to play the way football was meant to be played. I guess that's why I only play online franchise now, and only with people i know.

Madden players does not have emotional or financial investment, but still, as the NFL players, wants to win. I'd like a game where the given options on every play have similar risks and gains as the real one, it would improve the online experience a lot.

[Soprano00]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

You have nothing to lose (except maybe pride) if it doesn't work. Of course, you don't really GET anything either (except maybe pride and bragging rights if you're playing a buddy or something), but the lack of losing usually is a bigger motivator.

Well, you have something to lose: the game. And people recur to that strategies because they want to win, because those are the better choices for that play.

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Not to mention, some guys might have "money" plays or whatnot or if it's 4th and short - probably too easy to pick up a lot of times. I mean in 4th and 1 - come out in 4 WR to spread the defense - how many people are going to look run? Plus, if you did, they probably just audible to a pass and exploit the LBs on the slot WRs. So draws and such are easy few yards to convert.

That's a good point: defending 4th and 1 is much more difficult than in real football.

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

See A) - plus it might be too easy to pull off in Madden. I know success in recovering onside kicks in then NFL is low, even with a surprise onside kick.

Yesterday I had 3 successful onside kicks in a row against me in an online game (that still I managed to win), more than a quarter and a half without having possession...

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Combo of OL/DL play, the "reaction" of the LBs, a lot of QBs are at least decent runners (many QBs 70+ in SPD with decent AGI, ACC). In the real game OL/DL/LB play wouldn't allow a lot of what happens, imo. Plus the QB would get worn out with all that running around, not to mention the injury risk. But again, some of this goes back to A).

Yes but still: people is not punished for acting like that like they would do in real football.

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

I'd rather them fix the actual football instead of another shortcut. If the football works as it should, some of these will fix themselves while the others become much more high-risk, which then gives the other team a chance for a play. Not just anyone could pull it off, so more stops might cause more losses, etc. I'd rather that than just a "you can't do it". There's no such rule in real football, after all. See the Saints' surprise onside kick in the SUPER BOWL, to start the second half. Real coaches gamble, they just know the risks. Madden needs the risks, not to forbid aggressive/risky calls.

I tend do agree, as long as they really fix those issues. If not, then I would welcome a sim mode (as an option, not the only mode). Thanks for answering.

[tfctillidie]

NFL coaches get fired and Madden players can just pull the plug.

That's why.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Quote: Originally Posted by DUDERMAN

A) In Madden, nothing is really on the line. In the real NFL, every game is important. Statistically, teams don't often have success going for it on 4th down. If you fail to convert, you are giving your opponent great field position which you never want to do. The only times you should go for it on 4th down (in madden and in the real NFL) are when you are down in the 4th quarter or just outside your kickers range and are within 5 yards of the 1st down marker. Even then, it's usually a better idea to punt.

Actually, real NFL coaches are way, way too conservative when it comes to 4th downs. This has been studied to death. Possession of the ball is more important than 40 yards or so of field position in most instances. In Madden this is even more pronounced because offense is so much easier and you get fewer possessions.

Onside kicks are different because then you are usually trading 60+ yards of field position and the chance of recovery is so low.

Quote:

D) Madden has a stamina rating but it doesn't seem to affect performance, it only says when a player will be pulled out for rest. In the real NFL, players are human. Humans get tired, when they get tired they make mistakes. You see the no huddle when teams need to conserve time on the clock or they feel the defense is using a favorable package.

I haven't played enough Madden yet, but in NCAA running the no huddle every play is a fantastic way to cough up a turnover or get your guy injured.

[DUDERMAN]

Quote: Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC

and you get fewer possessions.

This is a great point. If a real NFL season lasted one game, and that game was only 20 minutes long... you'd probably see teams go to these extreme lengths to win.

You can normally afford to have a couple wasted possessions in the real NFL because of the clock. In Madden, however, not scoring on one drive could lose you the game.

I understand why people play the way they do, I just am not a fan of it myself. I haven't tried those Madden communities yet but it may be good to look into if you only want to play against other sim players.