Good Article on Overrating Rookies

[khaliib]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Have you ever been invited to CD? I honestly have a high regard for the Game Changers program and CD events, as being instrumental in improving the realism in EA football games. That's why I would want to see every possible facet of the game represented by someone from the community passionate about each area. I don't currently know who that is with regard to player ratings and would love to find out. If there is not currently someone that fits that mold, in regards to ratings, I personally would love to see DCEBB or someone of that ilk, representing that portion of the community. I am just not understanding what makes or who decided to seemingly make player ratings taboo or different from every other facet of the game that gets critiqued by the community at large and down at Tiburon by community representatives.

I would say the reason Ratings is left off the table is because the perspective of the discussion would be opposite.

We (community) discuss Ratings from the standpoint of Real Physical attributes, where as Donny Moore (EA/Tiburon) probably discuss Ratings from the standpoint of Virtual Animation Triggers.

Their Ratings are so heavily tied into their Animations, I believe that's why they've (Ratings Scale) have yet to change.

Similiar to the issue with the football size, it's tied into animations and adjusting it would throw everything into a tailspend of issues.

Example:
lower SPD Rating down to 5-20, you see players animate with a huntch-back while speed-walking running motion.

Thus, why we see player's rated so high in this area across the board, eventhough we have complained year after year, there is no way a DE should be as fast as some WR/DB's.

They simply trigger EA's VERY LIMITED animations.
That's why every player runs (Animate) the same with no regard to ht/wt.

SPD Rating simply trigger's how fast the Animation will move on the screen.

I guess what I'm trying to say is there's no discussion in the way your suggesting because it deals with tinkering with triggering thresholds (programming/coding) that could/would completly jack things up if done the way we're saying.

Just my personal theory.
May be totally wrong though!!!

[Big FN Deal]

@khalib, I feel exactly what you are saying and that's why a suggested DCEBB or someone of that ilk. Reason being there are people in the community, like DCEBB, that have tinkered with actual Madden ratings in relation to real world data.

If you do an OS search on DCEBB, you will see many posts talking about how to apply real world player data into Madden specifically. That's my point, there are people within the Madden community that are just as passionate about Madden ratings as Donny Moore and have worked hard to figure them out. Being down at Tiburon dealing directly with Donny Moore would help fill in any blanks for them and ultimately help them, help him, help us. lol.

We would all be better served in the area of player ratings if those people were part of the CD and Game Changer programs, imo.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

The average player should be around 50? I don't think any sports game uses such a scale, nor do I anticipate one doing so.

OOTP is pretty darn close. 70 is an excellent rating, not average. 80+ and you're looking at all-star ability in that area or better.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheDelta

Just because every game does it, doesn't make it better. It just doesn't make any sense to use a scale and then disregard more than half of it.

Completely agree.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by DUDERMAN

Do you believe any player should hit 99 in any rating (not counting measurables like JMP and SPD) in their rookie year, thus never being able to improve in that area?

Why not?

He could have great technique...and be an idiot. That doesn't mean his technique is bad, it means his decision-making is bad.

Give him 90 TAK and 20 AWR - he might cause more personal fouls, or get faked out easily, not letting his 90 work. He may never be "a better tackler" in terms of technique, but when he learns to read plays better, he stops taking bad steps and then that 90 shows up - improving his performance.

Likewise, a player with a good football head and raw skills. Just because his skills suck doesn't mean he's an idiot. He could read plays really well (90 PRC), but not know what to do about (low AWR), or execute poorly even if he makes the right decision (poor MCV, so even if he understand his man's route - PRC - he causes defensive holding because of his poor execution).

And, again, traits, roles, DPP could also improve, making the rookie improve without touching his base ratings.

Stretch physical ratings more, sure, but many players are going to have the physical ability to play their positions, otherwise - they wouldn't like get a sniff. Would a WR with awful speed get looked at? Average speed, sure, low speed, probably if he's a good route runner, strong against the press, good hands, good blocking, etc, but slow as an OL? Probably not. Physical ratings should be range bound by position. Average WR speed 80 - but an 80 SPD DE is very fast. That sort of thing. Technique ratings - range for ones that most apply to the position (blocking for linemen, for example), but even then a guy can be a great blocker...but reads the wrong guy to block...which is a mental error, not a blocking error. So his blocking shouldn't be low, his AWR/PRC should be. Everyone else (blocking for a kicker) should have pretty close to the minimum, or at least have a really hard time getting to even replacement level.

I really think it's the mental ratings that really need to be stretched. Inexperienced players tend to make worse decisions, not have worse physical abilities. They tend to get "awed by the moment" more, or get confused when trickery comes their way. AWR, PRC, consistency, DPP that causes more mistakes (Aggressive Corner with bad AWR could make him make even MORE mistakes, etc)

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

With DCEEB running a ratings website and seemingly having intimate knowledge of what ratings actually do, he seems like a good choice, imo. However, I am not aware of anyone that fits the ratings junkie mold that interacts with Donny Moore through CD or Game Changers. It almost seems like ratings in Madden are off the table whenever implementing community changes is being discussed at Tiburon.

Thanks for the vote of confidence! Perhaps I should throw my hat into the presidential nomination ring as well...the IMP...Independent Madden Party. My platform: More realistic Madden Ratings!

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

CR you know I respect your insight but are you implying that just because any ratings system would be subjective that there is no way to do things more realistic, ie better? It just seems odd to me for ratings to be written off as subjective, when under that criteria nothing in the game should be critiqued or discussed because the entire game is someone's perception of translating football into a program. I elaborated in more detail about "subjective" ratings in a thread I made about ratings. But they don't have to be and they shouldn't be, imo. Every NFL player has hard unbiased numbers/data that can be used, in a standard formula, to create player ratings in Madden. If that was done, the only thing subjective would be the parameters of the standard formula, not the ratings themselves, which is potentially less controversial and easier to acquire a consensus around. For example, if according to the standard formula, each player's top three 40 times are averaged and converted into a Speed rating on a universal scale of 0-100, with 0 being a 30.00/sec 40 and 100 being a 3.00/sec 40, Speed in Madden would no longer be subjective, it would be universally scaled. There should be people or someone at CD and/or in the Game Changers program critiquing the formula, not necessarily the ratings themselves. However, even questioning the ratings themselves should be on the table if that's what someone wants to do. My point is and what I am asking, is why is that it seems as if ratings are not a part of the community discussion for change at Tiburon? I don't mean that DCEBB or whoever goes and Donny Moore automatically institutes everything they say, I am talking about having someone like DCEBB there that's just as passionate about realistic ratings as others are about franchise, game play, sliders, online, etc.That type of discussion can only help to improve ratings, imo.

The standardization and making them universal is the biggest reason I started making all the big changes as to how players are rated on FBG. If there is no standard for ratings, then anyone can rate anything without using any data. They can just make stuff up without justification ie: raising a players speed rating to make him better OVR...not because he is actually faster.

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Have you ever been invited to CD? I honestly have a high regard for the Game Changers program and CD events, as being instrumental in improving the realism in EA football games. That's why I would want to see every possible facet of the game represented by someone from the community passionate about each area. I don't currently know who that is with regard to player ratings and would love to find out. If there is not currently someone that fits that mold, in regards to ratings, I personally would love to see DCEBB or someone of that ilk, representing that portion of the community. I am just not understanding what makes or who decided to seemingly make player ratings taboo or different from every other facet of the game that gets critiqued by the community at large and down at Tiburon by community representatives.

I am not aware or know what CD/Game Changers is. Please fill me in... I would love to represent changes to the Madden ratings system tho.

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

@khalib, I feel exactly what you are saying and that's why a suggested DCEBB or someone of that ilk. Reason being there are people in the community, like DCEBB, that have tinkered with actual Madden ratings in relation to real world data. If you do an OS search on DCEBB, you will see many posts talking about how to apply real world player data into Madden specifically. That's my point, there are people within the Madden community that are just as passionate about Madden ratings as Donny Moore and have worked hard to figure them out. Being down at Tiburon dealing directly with Donny Moore would help fill in any blanks for them and ultimately help them, help him, help us. lol. We would all be better served in the area of player ratings if those people were part of the CD and Game Changer programs, imo.

They did conduct a phone interview with me last summer for a Madden 13 position...however I came to realize that EA often uses this tactic to pump folks for information. Seemed to me like they were simply wanting some insight as to how I do things. I didn't give them anything over the phone...not without a contract. Needless to say, I most likely will not be working for them in the near future.