In a nutshell, what's wrong with next gen madden.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

Just wanted to correct one thing: Madden 12 specifically added gang tackles.

He said like Backbreaker.

[PGaither84]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

My perspective is that All-Madden doesn't make my team incompetent, but rather it puts a premium on acquiring players with higher ratings. That chase for better players has breathed life into my franchise. I look forward to getting some talent on the D-line to finally slow down the run, and some interior OL help to give me more time in the pocket.

Well, I was referring to custom All-Madden Sliders to make the experience even more difficult. I am already playing with 15 user accuracy, 0 pas blocking and 30 catching. Sure, that is 5 points higher than default all-madden catching, but any lower than 30 and it feels like how I described. Make it harder by making your receivers drop passes all game. Right now, unless they have high catch in traffic, they drop it when they get popped. They also drop open passes from time to time as well. Below 30, it feels like a catch is the exception.

I have Tackling on 25 against 30 CPU break tackle. If you go 10 or more points higher on break tackle, you watch receivers break tackles and run for scores or huge gains on most pas play. Also, Backs tend to pick up 12ypc.

I am trying to find better sliders, but sliders can only do so much. They can't make the AI call good plays, make adjustments, or anything like that. I am interested in getting sliders where the ratings and match ups matter. I like to play football, but user control just ruins everything... even when I try to play sim. "Look at me, I'm not generally careless with the football. I found a a hole in the defense and made a play. I am now winning 28-7 at half time. I just broke my hand patting myself on the back."

I think, and this is just an idea, that the lack of mistakes and penalties along with poor game play leads to unrealistic play and results despite how realistic you try to play the game.

I am not a great Madden player, and I don't think you have to be to be too good for the computer. You have to have a certain level of skill/knowledge, but you don't have to be an expert either.

Quote:

While difficulty and AI are separate things, they are intertwined. I don't know how one expects to have a more difficult game without the game manipulating player behavior to a degree. In NBA2K, the AI tends to get open easily and knock down those shots on higher difficulties. The AI doesn't outsmart you, it just makes the game harder. Essentially, Madden is doing the same thing.

I just don't know basketball enough to be any good. I play around with it, use the Sacramento Kings and try to be "not awful." I enjoy the presentation and just enjoy it.

I can't do the same thing with Madden. I know what I am doing, and it looks the the computer doesn't.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

I think, and this is just an idea, that the lack of mistakes and penalties along with poor game play leads to unrealistic play and results despite how realistic you try to play the game.

And then you're using sliders to try to emulate those mistakes, but since the mistakes don't really exist, they show up as more "Madden shortcut" type deals, like passes going to defenders or 10 yds out of bounds sometimes.

But in order to get just more misfires, the trade off is the wildly inaccurate passes. I play on 7 QB Acc, 20 WR catching, and finally, I see my weaker RTE WR messing up routes and throwing off timing of the pass play, I see stone-handed players "alligator arm" catches and not grab all my misfires (I don't think there's too many drops, I've seen guys make some seriously good catches on some of my throws, even on contact, and I don't User catch).

But then it might increase "psychic DBs" or make the "run the route before the WR" show up some more, etc.

Same thing on defense. It's hard to get false steps and misreads without making them utterly stupid or just play bad football. The tackling is another. You want some missed tackles but then you don't want it to happen constantly or with little regard to ratings.

I won't even go there with penalties. Eventually, I'll go back to screwing around with them, but not right now...and maybe not until/if I venture in M13.

[PGaither84]

I wanted to make a separate reply about what I want from my game play experience:

Alex Smith isn't VERY accurate... but even with 15 accuracy and L stick Passing I can be accurate enough and manage my throws. I can't make every throw with him, so I don't try. However, I can shred a defense with him and my weapons.

This brings me to my next part... my weapons. They start and end with Vernon in the passing game. I like Crabtree and Morgan [who is now a Redskin] but they both only have like 84 or so route running. They should be almost worthless against man coverage... but that's okay, thanks to L stick Passing, I can throw them open or find the open receiver in the zone. Also, Davis can just tear it up all day long too.

The O-Line can run block really well, but only my LT and LG can pas protect worth a darn. With poor pass blocking and poor receiver play, it should be hard to move the ball in the air. There i a reason the 49ers went 1/13 [or really 0/12] on 3rd down agaisn the Giants. There is a reason why the first come back score agaisnt the saints was a QB scramble and the other was a TD to 97+ OVR super TE Vernon Davis. When I play Madden, I can spread the rock and the love around even against 100 reaction time and 75 interception [thinking about 100 interception when I turn the game back on just to try and improve coverage.] I don't think I should be have such a successful passing attack. But it shouldn't be drop city and wild passes all over the field either. I should have to scramble and throw the ball away or check down a lot... until I get good receivers. Hopefully Moss and Manningham will help this year.

[Broncos86]

Yeah, I'd say it's safe to expect O-Line/D-Line play to remain largely the same for this year.

[MiNiDiTkA]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

Just wanted to correct one thing: Madden 12 specifically added gang tackles.

I wouldn't describe the tackling in 12 as gang tackling.Mostly you see two defenders in the play(which I don't consider a gang)or one defender start the tackle and another comes along and finishes it often times knocking the first defender out of the play.The only Madden I've seen which had gang tackling was 10.

Madden 12 tackling



Madden 11 vs 12 tackling



Madden 10 tackling

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by MiNiDiTkA

I wouldn't describe the tackling in 12 as gang tackling.Mostly you see two defenders in the play(which I don't consider a gang)or one defender start the tackle and another comes along and finishes it often times knocking the first defender out of the play.The only Madden I've seen which had gang tackling was 10.

Pro-tak was a good idea - it needed more refinement...but instead it just got dropped...

The issue I had with pro-tak was that it just sucked players onto the pile instead of one guy having his leg, another wrapped around the waist and then a 3rd-4th guy finally leverage the ball carrier to the ground. Instead it was a couple guys "stalemated" then snap-snap-snap-snap, six guys are all in a rugby scrum looking thing with the ball carrier able to "direct" the movement of the pile to some degree.

I wish it would have been refined. What happens in M12 reminds me too much of what happens in Tecmo Bowl - one guy engages the ball carrier and then another guy does the deed. Rarely more than 2 players involved, even if the first guy just got a leg or something, he'll bring him down by the leg right there unless it's a "broken tackle" completely. Somewhere between pro-tak and M12, there's a good tackling system in there, imo.

[Big FN Deal]

A lack of applicable NFL risk/reward and realistic challenge depth.

Golf is not very exciting or interesting to watch but people love the challenge it offers when actually playing. Think back to games like tic-tac-toe, and connect four, they are enjoyable for all of about 5-10 minutes before the "strategy" is all but exhausted. Likewise for Madden because there is very little lasting NFL strategic depth once you figure out how to be successful.