QB Vision

[XXL78]

Quote: Originally Posted by kmart2180

IMO Madden will always take the "Let little timmy be able to throw 10tds and 1000 yds in 1 game" over little timmy struggling to get 1 td. The easier the game is the more the casuals aka the mass buyers like the game. The vision cone was one of the best and probably only sim/harcore madden feature ever implemented into the game. But it was too hard for the rest so out it had to go......instead of keeping it as a option for the diehards like myself. I cannot stand playing qb with Alex Smith cause if i accuracy normal i make him a 40+ td qb .......if i drop accuracy down to a point where i cant throw for 40 tds.....then the game makes me throw wild errant passes that lead to 20+ interceptions....its like you can win either way. With the cone I feel like it just evened it out beautifully, I would struggle with the bums and do awesome with the better qbs. Without the cone, I could care less if im controlling P Manning or Nate Davis.....who I could put up the same numbers with. Truthfully i hated the cone when i first started using it cause it was tough but after taking the time to understand it and even more so now. I wish we still had the option.

This is a part that I especially dislike. When I had to have the receiver in my field of vision to throw an accurate pass (I.E. I actually had to turn my shoulders and face him to throw the ball to him) there were not so many sporadic passes. The way the game is now the CPU decides when your're going to throw an errant pass. I cannot tell you how many times I have had a wide open receiver have a wild pass go over his head when I had my feet set and was standing perfectly still in the pocket. Another thing that is taken away from the game is quarterback development. Formerly, I would have to let my rookie quarterback develop before I just throw him out there. If I did decide to play him immediatley I would have to change my offense accordingly. I could not have a wide open passing offense when my quarterback had 70 AWR, at least not as effectively. Over the years as my quarterbacks awareness got better, I could open up the offense accordingly. Btw, they need to bring training camp back. I miss being able to develop my players in the offseason.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by XXL78

Another thing that is taken away from the game is quarterback development. Formerly, I would have to let my rookie quarterback develop before I just throw him out there. If I did decide to play him immediatley I would have to change my offense accordingly. I could not have a wide open passing offense when my quarterback had 70 AWR, at least not as effectively.

Maybe it's my sliders, which brings up some of what you mention with the errant passes, but I find I can't really throw a raw or underdeveloped QB out there and still go run a Mike Martz St. Louis Rams-style offense.

I went from Josh Freeman (beast mode after a few years), to a Madden-class draftee that developed behind Freeman, to a rank rookie that needs work but has upside, and the offense has gotten progressively worse.

Now that rookie has a year of development, and maybe the offense will pick back up. I actually think it's too easy to have someone waiting in the wings for when a high-end starter leaves since I think backups develop too fast on the bench. They should grow some, but at a point, need to get out there for playing time and 1st team practice reps to mature, imo.

[ryan36]

I like the tecmo mechanic... no joke. Cycle through...make your progressions. Or. Get the arrow over him and then press the throw button.

So a circle reciever you'd press circle, and then press "x" to throw.

[tfctillidie]

I've posted it before but I'll bring it up again because it's appropriate for this thread...

Bring back vision cone, eliminate the right stick.

Press WR/TE/HB icon and your QB "looks" at that player. Press trigger to throw. Trigger pressure (way better than button pressure) to help differentiate the kind of throw....still use the LS for placement as we're used to.

No wonky controls but the vision is properly gained. There doesn't need to be a "miner light", but an indicator as to where the QB is looking "perhaps a highlighted/glowing icon" to help clearly identify the target for both the passer and the user defenders.

You can press A to look at the 'A' player to look off a safety or user player, then snap to your LB target by pressing a simple button and then trigger to throw.

The user pushing buttons would accurately match a real life "head" speed of looking from target to target. Wouldn't make us have to do anything out of the norm in regards to how we use the controller, just requires another button press to make a throw. Yes there's a fundamental change, but I think many realism backers realize that the passing game requires one...


Maybe one day...



p.s. great thread Gaither...

[Only1LT]

If they do bring back QBV, which I doubt, DO NOT remove the Right Stick option of controlling it (really should be the only way of controlling the progressions as using buttons defeats a lot of the purpose of the cone in the first place).

Some of us like to play the right way lol.

[DJ]

Quote: Originally Posted by ryan36

I like the tecmo mechanic... no joke. Cycle through...make your progressions. Or. Get the arrow over him and then press the throw button. So a circle reciever you'd press circle, and then press "x" to throw.

Good idea. This would incorporate vision, without having the flashlight effect from the previous version.

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

If they do bring back QBV, which I doubt, DO NOT remove the Right Stick option of controlling it (really should be the only way of controlling the progressions as using buttons defeats a lot of the purpose of the cone in the first place). Some of us like to play the right way lol.

I'm not for or against QB Vision. However, how is navigating the vision using the right stick playing the right way?

One flaw with QB Vision from my perspective was that it takes longer to scan the field using vision than it does for a human to turn his head back and forth.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

I'm not for or against QB Vision. However, how is navigating the vision using the right stick playing the right way? One flaw with QB Vision from my perspective was that it takes longer to scan the field using vision than it does for a human to turn his head back and forth.

Couple of levels.

Snap to button mechanics are too easy first off. That usually is the only reason I need lol. For others whom that isn't enough though, you need to look at what the mechanic is actually supposed to do. Making reads and giving a representation of where the QB is looking.

I hate the sky cam setup all together, but that's a topic for another day. This is what we have now though, so having a snap to button doesn't really change anything from how it currently is. I know this because I started out using the trigger method for QBV. What I did was lock the cone on an arbitrary receiver, but one who, based on my read at the LOS, probably wouldn't be the right one to go to. So I basically picked the receiver that I thought had the least chance of getting open, based on pre-snap read. Fine. So I snap the ball and precede to hold the trigger button for the snap to and leave the cone on him the entire time all the while looking at the other receivers I deemed to have favorable matchups. And the one who the cone is on too, cause this is skycam after all. Once one of the receivers I thought would be open, comes open, I press the receivers icon to look at him then press the same button again to throw. This happens in quick succession. It takes barely more time than to just press the button once.

So what happened on this play? I casually left the cone on someone I never had any intention of throwing to. Why? Because I knew that I could see the entire field anyway and it would take less than a second to throw to the player that was actually open.

What did the defense get out of it? Nothing. Nothing? Yep, nothing. They got to see my cone sit there the entire time on a decoy and had a millisecond to see the real one light up before the ball was in the air. So what is the point of the cone then???

With the Right stick, the cone moves pretty fast still, but slower than snapping. In that same scenario i would still look at the decoy, but I might have to look at one closer to my real target. I might move the cone side to side thinking someone is about to be open then change my mind because the receiver wasn't or no longer is by the time I got to him. With the snap to i can look at a receiver on the left sideline and throw to one on the right in the blink of an eye. With the RS I'd have to sweep it over there giving the D a little more warning. With the trigger I always look exactly at the receiver whose button I press. With the RS, I might over or undershoot him because I'm pressured.

Basically the trigger method defeats the purpose of the QBV. It just requires that I hold a trigger down and rapid press the same button twice. The RS is analog, which is how a persons head really turns, doesn't always snap exactly to the receiver, approximating a QB having to actually locate the receiver, because even though he knows the play and where the receiver should be, he isn't a robot and can be off by a little on any given play, especially when hurried. Finally you are more apt to actually MOVE the QB's vision with the RS, just because you can't rely on perfectly getting it on the receiver every time via button press. In other words, there is a much better chance that you make reads through the interface and not just with your own eyes, giving the defense something to key on other than the wrong receiver every single play.

Now, even the RS is flawed, because again, you can still see the whole field and don't have to actually go through progressions, but if we are comparing the two methods, the RS is by FAR the lesser of two evils.

So yeah, that's why I say it's the right way. Even though both are really wrong.