STOP THE WHINING! MADDEN IS VERY REALISTIC!!!...

[HMcCoy]

You can MAKE it realistic. Or you can make it arcade. Madden lets you do both, which I guess is good. Problem is, that it will never be as slow, and methodical as ESPN which like it or not, is perhaps a truer representation real football. It will also never be as fun and over-the-top as Blitz which throws reality right out the window. The hardcore fans of both extremes will always find ESPN and Blitz more enjoyable.

Thats why OS continually gets branded as a ESPN fan-site. In actuality, the same type of gamer who regularly frequents a sports-gaming website can safely be catgorized as a hardcore type, predisposed to crave realism over all other factors. ESPN clearly caters SPECIFICALLY to that CROWD while Madden clearly does not. Thats why the post count and buzz for ESPN far exceeds Madden. ESPN is made for OS'rs


Now, don't get me wrong. If you are playing with someone who doesn't play unrealistically, Madden can be more than satisfactory for sim heads. Problem is, when I sit in the barbershop and watch guys go at it, the average guy plays doesn't even ATTEMPT to play a sim style game. Over and over and over again you see the guy press hike, fade straight back about 25-30 yards and hit a reciever. Madden allows their user to define their own experience. I respect that, it's why Madden sells 4 to 1 over Sega. In 25 yard fade backs aren't a problem, or glitch, its just an accepted facet of the gameplay in Madden. Stepping up and delivering a nice crisp pass is also in Madden, it all depends on personal playing style.

ESPN is flawwed throughout, but its at least trying to force you into a realistic type of gameplay, IE..There are throw modifiers that reward you with a stronger throw, for releasing the throw just as you "bounce" in the pocket. ESPN has tons of problems, and AI gaffes but for the most part they are just that. Problems which can be addressed next year.

BTW, Broken tackles are a problem for the uninitiated, but let me explain the solution. I was playing against the Chiefs, and Preist had 89 yards in the first quarter. ESPN's offensive AI realizes what is and isn't working and if you havn't had sucess stopping the run, the cpu will pound your *** into the ground. The first play of the second quarter, Priest takes a toss to the right, and as I'm coming up to make the play with Lassiter, I decide that instead of running directly at him I'll slow down hold the strafe and square up and try to cut off the sideline. Priest sees this, and instead of breaking it outside he starts to head inside. By now, Ben Leber and Zack Moreno have started to shed their blocks and Moreno is able to make contact. Of course Zack Moreno isn't going to be able to stop Holmes with a full head of steam behind him, so the broken tackle animation starts. In the middle of this animation Leber breaks through and engages the runner so now, Holmes is going down but his momentum is still carrying him forward and he'll prolly still get about 7 or 8 outta' the play. Now I fly in with Lassiter and stick the SH*T out of Holmes and not only does his momentum change, it knocks him back, a 2.5 yard gain. I was so hyped, because my CONTAINMENT with Lassiter made the play. My commitment to force him to the help was what stopped him. This was a breakthrough!. Once I let this govern my run D, the average went from 150+ given-up to 75-95 given up per game. Not a flaw, but a shift in mechanics. If you love Madden, this aint a shift, its just crappy gameplay.


I guess the point of this long, meandering, mostly unimportant post is that there will never be a winner in the Madden v. ESPN debate. Play what you like......

[Whaaaazuuuuup]

Quote:

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HMcCoy said:
You can MAKE it realistic. Or you can make it arcade. Madden lets you do both, which I guess is good. Problem is, that it will never be as slow, and methodical as ESPN which like it or not, is perhaps a truer representation real football. It will also never be as fun and over-the-top as Blitz which throws reality right out the window. The hardcore fans of both extremes will always find ESPN and Blitz more enjoyable.

Thats why OS continually gets branded as a ESPN fan-site. In actuality, the same type of gamer who regularly frequents a sports-gaming website can safely be catgorized as a hardcore type, predisposed to crave realism over all other factors. ESPN clearly caters SPECIFICALLY to that CROWD while Madden clearly does not. Thats why the post count and buzz for ESPN far exceeds Madden. ESPN is made for OS'rs


Now, don't get me wrong. If you are playing with someone who doesn't play unrealistically, Madden can be more than satisfactory for sim heads. Problem is, when I sit in the barbershop and watch guys go at it, the average guy plays doesn't even ATTEMPT to play a sim style game. Over and over and over again you see the guy press hike, fade straight back about 25-30 yards and hit a reciever. Madden allows their user to define their own experience. I respect that, it's why Madden sells 4 to 1 over Sega. In 25 yard fade backs aren't a problem, or glitch, its just an accepted facet of the gameplay in Madden. Stepping up and delivering a nice crisp pass is also in Madden, it all depends on personal playing style.

ESPN is flawwed throughout, but its at least trying to force you into a realistic type of gameplay, IE..There are throw modifiers that reward you with a stronger throw, for releasing the throw just as you "bounce" in the pocket. ESPN has tons of problems, and AI gaffes but for the most part they are just that. Problems which can be addressed next year.

BTW, Broken tackles are a problem for the uninitiated, but let me explain the solution. I was playing against the Chiefs, and Preist had 89 yards in the first quarter. ESPN's offensive AI realizes what is and isn't working and if you havn't had sucess stopping the run, the cpu will pound your *** into the ground. The first play of the second quarter, Priest takes a toss to the right, and as I'm coming up to make the play with Lassiter, I decide that instead of running directly at him I'll slow down hold the strafe and square up and try to cut off the sideline. Priest sees this, and instead of breaking it outside he starts to head inside. By now, Ben Leber and Zack Moreno have started to shed their blocks and Moreno is able to make contact. Of course Zack Moreno isn't going to be able to stop Holmes with a full head of steam behind him, so the broken tackle animation starts. In the middle of this animation Leber breaks through and engages the runner so now, Holmes is going down but his momentum is still carrying him forward and he'll prolly still get about 7 or 8 outta' the play. Now I fly in with Lassiter and stick the SH*T out of Holmes and not only does his momentum change, it knocks him back, a 2.5 yard gain. I was so hyped, because my CONTAINMENT with Lassiter made the play. My commitment to force him to the help was what stopped him. This was a breakthrough!. Once I let this govern my run D, the average went from 150+ given-up to 75-95 given up per game. Not a flaw, but a shift in mechanics. If you love Madden, this aint a shift, its just crappy gameplay.


I guess the point of this long, meandering, mostly unimportant post is that there will never be a winner in the Madden v. ESPN debate. Play what you like......

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i can't say your points are valid. these flaws you speak of are about animations, not the true effectiveness of the players. i don't care if the grfx look like the ps1 version, for as long as Dunn can't run over Urlacher. if you want to get picky about animations, look at 2k4's. the QB doing the Michael Jackson spin and just throwing the ball with accuracy, not even looking at the wr. what about the mony play slants? with the running game, even with the slider (breaking tackles) adjustments, small, low rated running back STILL break alot of tackles. i'm not complaining, i love the game(ESPN), but it is a serious issue. there are many others but i'm not going to get into a argument because i like both games...

[JRod]

Hm:

I have to disagree with you slightly. The run tackles are not as fined tuned as they should be. Containment is a big think in ESPN but the game doesn't reward this becuase broken tackle animation is too quick and let's the offensive playe get out of it before the defense can help in most cases.

Second big backs are too powerful. You will see atleast 15 broken tackles a game by there guys regardless.

Two ways to remedy this, allow better plays to hang on to their tackles longer. Sure the better defenses in football swarm around runners but the better defenders can hold on until support arrives. This doesn't happen in ESPN regardless of the type of player you have the animation is the same. It would be nice to have the better defensed hold on longer to their tackles. The second is to have the better defense swarm faster. Make it so they arrive quiker to help out their teammates.

I think ESPN is playing with a flaw somewhere. The developer know that without the high amount of broken tackles that running game wouldn't be realistic.

Does it stop people from having from, no and it shouldn't but it could be better implemented.

[Whaaaazuuuuup]

Quote:

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JRod said:
Hm:

I have to disagree with you slightly. The run tackles are not as fined tuned as they should be. Containment is a big think in ESPN but the game doesn't reward this becuase broken tackle animation is too quick and let's the offensive playe get out of it before the defense can help in most cases.

Second big backs are too powerful. You will see atleast 15 broken tackles a game by there guys regardless.

Two ways to remedy this, allow better plays to hang on to their tackles longer. Sure the better defenses in football swarm around runners but the better defenders can hold on until support arrives. This doesn't happen in ESPN regardless of the type of player you have the animation is the same. It would be nice to have the better defensed hold on longer to their tackles. The second is to have the better defense swarm faster. Make it so they arrive quiker to help out their teammates.

I think ESPN is playing with a flaw somewhere. The developer know that without the high amount of broken tackles that running game wouldn't be realistic.

Does it stop people from having from, no and it shouldn't but it could be better implemented.

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...

[Kanobi]

Quote:

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HMcCoy said:
You can MAKE it realistic. Or you can make it arcade. Madden lets you do both, which I guess is good. Problem is, that it will never be as slow, and methodical as ESPN which like it or not, is perhaps a truer representation real football. It will also never be as fun and over-the-top as Blitz which throws reality right out the window. The hardcore fans of both extremes will always find ESPN and Blitz more enjoyable.

Thats why OS continually gets branded as a ESPN fan-site. In actuality, the same type of gamer who regularly frequents a sports-gaming website can safely be catgorized as a hardcore type, predisposed to crave realism over all other factors. ESPN clearly caters SPECIFICALLY to that CROWD while Madden clearly does not. Thats why the post count and buzz for ESPN far exceeds Madden. ESPN is made for OS'rs


Now, don't get me wrong. If you are playing with someone who doesn't play unrealistically, Madden can be more than satisfactory for sim heads. Problem is, when I sit in the barbershop and watch guys go at it, the average guy plays doesn't even ATTEMPT to play a sim style game. Over and over and over again you see the guy press hike, fade straight back about 25-30 yards and hit a reciever. Madden allows their user to define their own experience. I respect that, it's why Madden sells 4 to 1 over Sega. In 25 yard fade backs aren't a problem, or glitch, its just an accepted facet of the gameplay in Madden. Stepping up and delivering a nice crisp pass is also in Madden, it all depends on personal playing style.

ESPN is flawwed throughout, but its at least trying to force you into a realistic type of gameplay, IE..There are throw modifiers that reward you with a stronger throw, for releasing the throw just as you "bounce" in the pocket. ESPN has tons of problems, and AI gaffes but for the most part they are just that. Problems which can be addressed next year.

BTW, Broken tackles are a problem for the uninitiated, but let me explain the solution. I was playing against the Chiefs, and Preist had 89 yards in the first quarter. ESPN's offensive AI realizes what is and isn't working and if you havn't had sucess stopping the run, the cpu will pound your *** into the ground. The first play of the second quarter, Priest takes a toss to the right, and as I'm coming up to make the play with Lassiter, I decide that instead of running directly at him I'll slow down hold the strafe and square up and try to cut off the sideline. Priest sees this, and instead of breaking it outside he starts to head inside. By now, Ben Leber and Zack Moreno have started to shed their blocks and Moreno is able to make contact. Of course Zack Moreno isn't going to be able to stop Holmes with a full head of steam behind him, so the broken tackle animation starts. In the middle of this animation Leber breaks through and engages the runner so now, Holmes is going down but his momentum is still carrying him forward and he'll prolly still get about 7 or 8 outta' the play. Now I fly in with Lassiter and stick the SH*T out of Holmes and not only does his momentum change, it knocks him back, a 2.5 yard gain. I was so hyped, because my CONTAINMENT with Lassiter made the play. My commitment to force him to the help was what stopped him. This was a breakthrough!. Once I let this govern my run D, the average went from 150+ given-up to 75-95 given up per game. Not a flaw, but a shift in mechanics. If you love Madden, this aint a shift, its just crappy gameplay.

---

[Kanobi]

Quote:

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JRod said:
I have to disagree with you slightly. The run tackles are not as fined tuned as they should be. Containment is a big think in ESPN but the game doesn't reward this becuase broken tackle animation is too quick and let's the offensive playe get out of it before the defense can help in most cases.

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Hell, at least defensive players CAN help bring down the ballcarrier in ESPN via the PILE-ON gangtackling mechanic that VC introduced to football-gaming this year. Its WORLDS better than Maddens "Wait Your Turn" tackling where you have to wait until the ballcarrier breaks a tackle before you can have a shot in bringing them down. Plus, Last I checked , broken Tackles occur fast in real life. It doesn't take backs in the nfl 5-6 seconds to break one tackle. Its very quick...just like in ESPN. Madden fans are accustomed to the long drawn out Break tackle animations in Madden that give the rest of the defense time to get there. Thats why basically any pass defense in Madden can be an affective run defense as well...because the running game is too easy to shut down and requires very little strategy and technique to contain. This is the main reason Madden fans who try to play ESPN complain about the broken tackles...because they have never been forced to use so much strategy and technique in order to contain it.

Quote:

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JRod said:
Second big backs are too powerful. You will see atleast 15 broken tackles a game by there guys regardless.

Two ways to remedy this, allow better plays to hang on to their tackles longer. Sure the better defenses in football swarm around runners but the better defenders can hold on until support arrives. This doesn't happen in ESPN regardless of the type of player you have the animation is the same. It would be nice to have the better defensed hold on longer to their tackles. The second is to have the better defense swarm faster. Make it so they arrive quiker to help out their teammates..

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The Main way to remedy that is adjusting your GAMEPLAN sliders and instruct the CPU-controlled players on your defense to focus more on stopping the run. This works....even better when you call the right plays and put your players in good postiion to defense the run.

Quote:

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JRod said:
I think ESPN is playing with a flaw somewhere.

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and from most of your posts I'd say you're pretty obscessed with finding it. Man it'd be awesome if you were a Tester for nfl2k5. If so, then the game would likely be flawless...or we might end up runningbacks that are stopped way too easily...."BitchBacks".

[BlackNGold]

Same thing for Madden. All I had to do was adjust the sliders in both games and now I'm happy. It's nice to have two great football titles to play.

[jake44np]

You know what i find really funny is how guys who prefer espn bash madden, and then when you go over to the espn forum like 75% of the post are espn owners complaining bout espn football!! Go over to their forum right know and look at how many of the post are issues about something wrong with the game! Then take a look at the madden board and hardly any of the post are post complaining about the game! Again to each his own but I find i funny how they say how much better espn is then all the post are problems that they are having with espn football.